Modern Plane Irons

[Bluekingfisher]

I have several fettled Stanley bench planes with uprated irons & cap irons procured from Workshop Heaven, including the thicker Quengshang iron, which I believe are RC3 treated steel? and the thinner Ray Iles iron. I am very pleased with them all, easily honed on my diamongd plates and perform fantastically well.

I have recently acquired a LN smoother. I understand their irons are A2 steel?

Does anyone have long term experience or preferences for any particular type of modern plane iron, considering performance, ease of sharpening and edge retention. The scientology of it all is beyond my comprehension although a brief outline of the differences would be much appreciated.

Thanks

David

 

[Jacob]

Thin ones are easier to hone. Other than that it doesn't make a deal of difference which you have.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

I am not concerned as to the thickness of the blades relative to honing, more regards the quality and resiliance of the steels.

 

[Jacob]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

Well you asked for it!
Thin ones don't need grinding you can hone the whole bevel. Anyway grinding takes longer on a thick one so it's the same difference.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

Well you asked for it!
Thin ones don't need grinding you can hone the whole bevel. Anyway grinding takes longer on a thick one so it's the same difference.

Ok Jacob, Have you any info on the resiliance and quality of the steel.

 

[Jacob]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

Well you asked for it!
Thin ones don't need grinding you can hone the whole bevel. Anyway grinding takes longer on a thick one so it's the same difference.

Ok Jacob, Have you any info on the resiliance and quality of the steel.

Yes; they are all slightly different.
Harder ones take longer to sharpen and may hold an edge longer but may be brittle and chip more easily. Laminated ones are quicker to sharpen but more prone to chip, and so on.
Basically stick with what you've got it's all a compromise though personally I prefer old laminated thin Stanley and Record blades but there's not much in it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

I am not concerned as to the thickness of the blades relative to honing, more regards the quality and resiliance of the steels.

Sorry. I realised that - I was sidetracked by J's comment.

 

[MIGNAL]

I think I have examples of them all apart from the new Veritas steel. The differences are pretty small, nothing to lose any sleep over. Seriously, in a working environment you don't bother which type of steel it is. You sharpen it and get on with the work. Things are much more noticeable with something like HSS, which really does take an amount of effort to get truly sharp.

 

[bugbear]

Thin ones are easier to hone. Other than that it doesn't make a deal of difference which you have.

Welcome back Jacob! It hasn't been the same without you. :wink:

BugBear

 

[mouppe]

The LN blades are excellent and hold an edge for a very long time. I prefer A2 steel to 01 steel for plane blades. I have a chisel from veritas' new steel, but I don't find the edge retention is very good- maybe it's just a one-off?- I'm not sure.

I hardly ever take my blades to the grinder so I can't agree with Jacob's earlier comment.

New blades work well for me.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

The LN blades are excellent and hold an edge for a very long time. I prefer A2 steel to 01 steel for plane blades. I have a chisel from veritas' new steel, but I don't find the edge retention is very good- maybe it's just a one-off?- I'm not sure.

I hardly ever take my blades to the grinder so I can't agree with Jacob's earlier comment.

New blades work well for me.

Thanks for the informative feedback gents, much appreciated.

Mouppe - when you mention the new steel from Veritas, are you referring to the PM-11 steel? and if so, are saying the A2 steel holds a better and longer edge? In addition, and as a matter of interest what types of wood are you working with?

David

 

[mouppe]

Yes, the PM-V11 chisel I have never seems to hold a good edge, but since I only have one of them it's hard to compare.

I work all types of wood, but mainly focus on North American hardwoods, apart from maple. Hate the stuff for woodworking!

 

[D_W]

Thin ones are easier to hone. Other than that it doesn't make a deal of difference which you have.

Sounds good to me!

Modern irons have some advantage if you're in a contest to take the longest number of feet of 1 thousandth inch shavings in a row. Which is not far different to how some beginners use planes, and since they are so terrified of sharpening and take so long to do it, maybe it's necessary to have something that needs it less?

If the work goes beyond that (jacking, trying, then smoothing jacked work), there's no advantage to modern irons, except that they are readily available in new forms. Just as there is no advantage to modern cap irons (they are functionally less effective than the stanley design, and require more fettling).

Old irons that are sharpened quickly on a stone that needs no maintenance fit in the workflow much better.

 

[D_W]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

Grinding a fully hardened 1/4th inch piece of steel is a waste of time, too. Not just honing.

(unless we're just talking about stanley replacement irons).

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There seems to be almost as much written on forums about different toolsteels as there is about sharpening. Most of it seems to be either personal opinion (sometimes not all that informed) and some is just outright bigotry. Trying to ascertain definite 'facts' is almost impossible, and in all honesty probably not really worth it anyway. Some people seem to develop their own likes and dislikes - nothing wrong with that - but then plug them as the 'only right answer'.

Almost all handtools sold today have cutters that are fit for purpose (the few that are inadequate tend to be at the VERY cheap end of the market). Some may take slightly better edges in some circumstances, some may hold better edges in some circumstances. The problem is that 'some circumstances' rather implies a laboratory-like set of defined conditions under which blades can be compared, or the extremes of woodworking like ultra-abrasive timbers that most of us don't use very often, if at all. Real life workshop conditions are not those of the laboratory - and my workshop conditions may not be anything like yours, or the next persons! Another problem is that one sample of a particular grade of steel may not behave exactly the same as another by a different maker - there are a lot of variables in steelmaking, shaping and heat treatment. Unless you're going to use a tool so much that you'll wear it out within your lifetime, there isn't too much point in paying extra for everlasting steels.

I think the best bet is just to use the tools you have. Develop a sharpening method that's quick and efficient and suits you and your way of working, then refreshing an edge is no big deal, just part of the normal work-flow. If you find an edge tool you really don't get on with, then maybe it makes sense to replace it, but otherwise just use them and sharpen them up when you feel they need it. Vintage irons tend to vary a bit, and so do modern ones; I think in the end the best is just get used to the particular foibles of your tools so that you keep them happy in their work, and leave the worrying about metallurgy to the toolmakers and pundits on internet forums.

Mind you, that's just a personal opinion.....

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The workshop heaven blades are actually T10 steel, which is a Chinese water hardened steel similar to the now unavailable W1 steel that very old planes may have had. It is a fairly simple carbon steel, but being water hardened, does seem to take a sharper edge than many alloy steels we come across. It is also reasonably hard, so quite good at keeping its edge for a carbon steel. As far as A2 steel goes, I find Ron Hock irons A2 cryogenic to be the best. They seem to take a finer edge than the Veritas and at low angles. The Veritas is fine at slightly higher angles, maybe 35deg, though in milder woods normal honing are fine. These are all a little better than standard Stanly irons and such, though are much better manufactured in terms of surface finish, so easier to prep when new. Older Record laminated irons crucible cast steel are nicest of the ones original to the planes, and are worth keeping. I would never buy a standard manufacturers replacement iron though. For my money, the QS ones are about the best for price and performance. I have a few Clifton forged irons and they are good, but too expensive and now unavailable anyway. I liked to buy British at the time I got them, but in all honesty, they have no performance difference to the QS to justify being 3 times the price. I have not tried the new Cliftons, but suspect they are not much different. Cryogenic treatment of carbon steel has marginal benefit, and I would guess th QS would be indistinguishable or perhaps slightly better. I had to try Veritas PM V11 when it became available in Bailey style blades, and got one for my Record 07. I would say that it is slightly more tenacious to sharpen, but not a major effort, though it needs to be very sharp. I find 8000G water stones to be good, but less fine and the iron just does not perform well. I have not tried oilstones with it yet, because hard Arkansas and a strop to finish would be necessary IMO to get the best from this steel. When truly sharp, it is really rather good for abrasive timbers and does keep an edge considerably longer than anything else I've used. Whereas most other steels are close enough not to make a lot of difference in the longrun, PM V11 is tangibly better by leaps and bounds. But in moderate materials is not really necessary if cost is important. If you need performance in abrasive wood, though, are probably the best in terms of sharpenability and edge retention. HSS will retain its edge but is never as sharp so surfaces are not as good. These are observations I have made with my own tools, over many years of woodworking.

Mike.

 

[Trafalgar]

I doubt I'd hone a pig sticker mortise chisel at 35* It's just unbelievable to me that people find this acceptable -- a steel that demands honing this high rather than it being the craftsman's choice for whatever reason.

I like cutting wood, not splitting like it was firewood for the stove.

 

[Fat ferret]

As you're only honing the thou or so at the end, what difference does the overall thickness of the blade make to it's honing? :? You're going to hone more steel off a thin blade that needs grinding than a freshly ground thick one.
I feel a sense of deja vu coming on again.

Grinding a fully hardened 1/4th inch piece of steel is a waste of time, too. Not just honing.

(unless we're just talking about stanley replacement irons).

Just grind it to as shallow an angle as you dare an hone as normal, you should get loads of sharpens out of it before you have to regrind. That's how my one and only woody I use for rough timber came and I haven't had to regrind yet.

Cant comment on replacement irons, all of my other planes (three) have standard irons which work well.

 

[D_W]

I doubt I'd hone a pig sticker mortise chisel at 35* It's just unbelievable to me that people find this acceptable -- a steel that demands honing this high rather than it being the craftsman's choice for whatever reason.

I like cutting wood, not splitting like it was firewood for the stove.

I have no clue why anyone would talk about sharpening pigstickers in a thread called "modern plane irons". Or what the proper angle to sharpen a chisel has to do with plane irons at all.