Moderately priced table saw

[greg@hilltop]

Guess what - I need advice.
I have never owned a table saw and thought my tracksaw would remove the need for one but I'm increasingly less convinced of this.
I also feel the need for a dado stack or equivalent but hear confusing things about regulations.
Are there reasonably priced table saws available in the UK that can cut dados and leave your fingers intack? I am generally pretty careful and able but we all make mistakes occasionally

All advice appreciated.

 

[Peri]

I think you'll have a great problem finding one for retail sale. I thought they were illegal, but Steves post sums it up nicely.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/dado-blades.120491/

When I produced my comprehensive (ahem) treatise on tablesaw use on DVD nearly a decade ago now, I consulted the HSE, just to make sure I wasn't making any major boo-boos. They confirmed what I already knew.

1. Dado stacks are not illegal in the UK, neither to sell nor use.

2. What IS illegal is:
a) To use a TS in a commercial workshop that is not adequately guarded. Unfortunately the standard guard that comes with most TSs has to be removed as it is usually mounted on the riving knife. So some other suitable guarding has to be devised.

b) To use a TS in a commercial workshop that does not stop within 10 seconds of the power being cut. The increased mass of the stack c.f. an ordinary blade means that the momentum of the revolving blade keeps it moving longer than a normal blade. On a small light, saw, this is significant. On a bigger, more massive saw, the extra blade weight is of less significance.

I have an Xcalibur cabinet saw, sadly no longer available. It came with a short 30mm arbor and a long 5/8" arbor, so it will, and occasionally does, take a dado stack.

But it still stops in under 7 seconds, even at full stack, and I have devised a range of guards for use with different sawing operations, including dado stacks. I NEVER use my saw unguarded, whether the camera is on or not.

I'm not aware of any other saw available in the UK that will accept a dado stack, although I believe that one of the top-end Scheppach saws does take some sort of grooving blade (though I don't think it is a stack).

Dado stacks produce very clean cuts, but the setup time and faff is only really worthwhile for production runs. There are usually other methods, quicker to set up, that achieve the same end, and are more suitable in the home workshop for one-offs and small runs.

If you do use one and use it for rebates and cabinet backs, I highly recommend my rebate and groove fence. But then, I would, wouldn't I?

 

[johnnyb]

i honestly don't know of any reasonably priced saws that can take dado sets. mines a dw746 and that only takes a part stack. also i found them to be less than accurate tending to give a rippled finish in the rebate face. I do use it sometimes for simple doors mainly because that's how I've always done it!
I'm a fan of American style saws but I do want a large panel saw but space is a bit tight.

 

[greg@hilltop]

Given I have a perfectly good router table, should I be using that where I might have used a dado and then just bought a cheep simple table saw?

 

[harryc]

The Lumberjack saw is the only one I have heard of having the ability to load a dado stack in a reasonable price range.

 

[custard]

As a general rule a good quality track saw and/or MFT system will deliver better accuracy than a cheap or even middle priced table saw. If you’re mainly working sheet goods there’s no contest IMO, you have to spend tens of thousands on a top end panel saw before you even equal track saw accuracy and repeatability.

With solid timber it’s more complicated, but even then with some ingenuity larger track saws can often hold their own.

Another thing that’s worth bearing in mind is that using a table saw, especially for ripping, is a real skill. Unless you do it regularly you’re unlikely to be particularly accurate, that holds true for both solid timber and sheet goods. Where as with a track saw you need care and adherence to best practice more than skill and experience.

Finally, dado blades are perfectly legal in the UK, but is that the best use for your budget? I have a dado blade, a really good one in fact that’s can be reliably re-set to 0.1mm, but I don’t use it all that much. I generally prefer to use a router for housing joints (if nothing else a stopped housing is way easier on a router than with a dado blade) and for tenons I’ll normally cut the cheeks on a band saw. I’m not alone in this, the clear majority of professional furniture makers I know follow similar practices.

I guess what I’m saying is that beware of falling into the woodworking trap that a new tool or machine is the solution. It might be, but more often it will just bring fresh problems.

Good luck!

 

[greg@hilltop]

Thanks Custard. I think all you say makes sense. I have rebates to make in oak treads and risers and hope to make a WRC greenhouse soon so allowed myself to think a dado stack was the answer. I will persever with track saw and router and start to dream of a spindle moulder - only joking!

 

[mr rusty]

To remove material for a large rebate I often use my hand power planer which will take up to 4mm at a pass, then clean up and finish on the router table. I hate using my table saw, and will use anything I can before using it. Tracks saw, band saw, sliding mitre with depth stop for trenching, router table - so many options...

 

[deema]

There is another solution to a Dado, but it is relatively space hungry!! A Wadkin BRA saw which are both ‘cheap’ and once setup (which is very easy) and something you normally only ever do when ever you change the top; Unbelievably accurate. They are fairly rare but they did do a single phase variant (which I have). The 3phase versions are very common.
The BRA type saw attracts a lot of bad press, most IMO unwarranted. They are cheaper than a good SCMS (sliding compound mitre saw) and far far more accurate. I would go so far as to say far far more accurate IMO than any modern SCMS available. As for safety, they are IMO as safe as any SCMS.
So, what can you do with it, well any form of compund cross cut as well as trenching. Now, you can RIP, but that is were it gets contentious and there is a lot of bad press about accidents when people have used it to Rip. I have the proper Wadkin riving knife and anti kick back fingers designed for the saw for mine and have used it to RIP without any issues.
I also fit spindle moulder grooving blocks, wobble saw etc to it using reducing rings and trench with it. Nothing is as accurate or indeed IMO as safe.

If your looking for a small table saw, I can suggest the following. I restore ‘old iron’ as a hobby and have refurbished a few saws.
Wadkin BGS12. A larger small cabinet saw, based in the Wadkin AGS12. It has beefier trunnions and spindle bearings than the AGS10. The main befit is that it has a small slider which is a wonderful design. Infinity adjustable to get it running true, but not very easy to get setup initially.
Startrite DS275 or DS175. They both have the same dimensions, but the 175 takes a 10” blade where as the 275 takes a 12” blade. Probably the smallest most versatile saw out there and much favoured by architect model makers. The sliding table has a good range and is superbly designed to store without being removed. The extension bars it should have mean that it can be used in a limited way to be a proper panel saw. The fence is better than any of the earlier Wadkin AGS saws.
SCM Si15i. This is the saw I have as my main saw. It’s the most capable saw I’ve come across which is also a compromise as it can do everything, but nothing absolutely perfectly (ie slider is not against the blade). It has a massive 5 1/2” RIP capacity, a 50” cut sliding table, scoring blade and a superb main fence. Solid saw that weighs literally a tonne! Fairly rare, but when they do come up a really good saw is within your budget. Not as big as they look, just a little larger foot print to a AGS12. A friend of mine and a contributor on here also has one.......in a single garage.......he converted it to single phase.

 

[deema]

For shall jobs a rebate plane is a very cheap solution. For trenching I love to use a Record 405 plane. There are other planes that do a similar function. For speed and accuracy for a one or two off you can’t beat it. Its very very quick, and with a little practice very easy to achieve accurate results. No noise, no danger of cutting bits off and they won’t lose their value.

 

[custard]

I have rebates to make in oak treads and risers and hope to make a WRC greenhouse

These are joinery projects, I wrongly assumed you were talking about cabinet making projects. I'm reasonably knowledgeable on furniture making, but pretty inexperienced on joinery...so you should cheerfully disregard whatever I say!