Meeting building regs for outbuildings

[No skills]

Hello all,

I'm after putting an extension/shed onto my garage (aprox 8'x9'), I was going to have the walls built from block but the process of actually getting somebody to do it is proving painful (awaiting a quote from the 4th party so far) and my patience is wearing pretty thin.

I need the 'shed' to be built from 'non-combustible' material to meet building regs, I've looked at the commonly available steel sheds and their not for me, way too thin for the money. So I'm wondering if I can timber frame the structure, clad it in a cement type board and then render it.

Any problems with that?? Been looking at this for the boards.. http://www.savolit.co.uk/savolit-woodwool-board

Cheers

8)

 

[Myfordman]

Fire resistant boards are usually horrendously expensive just because they can virtually name their own price
High density blocks sprayed with water proofer on the inside and then clad with insulation and ply wood is very effective and simple
Putting up a few blocks is not exactly difficult although I appreciate not everyone is fit enough to do it.
When my workshop was built I had just had hand surgery and could not hold a high density block myself but the local odd job chap was able to do the job on several consecutive Saturdays. I wonder if you are asking the wrong people eg builders who can get more lucrative/attractive work elsewhere.
Keep a look out of odd job/white van types in your area and you might have more luck asking them.

MM

 

[Lons]

I'd agree withh MM.
If you're fit then have a go yourself. Lightweight 7n concrete blocks are not too heavy and certainly not difficult to quickly build a sizeable wall just don't build more than 3 or 4 courses high if inexperienced. have the mortar quite sloppy as the blocks really suck out the moisture and use a longish level from the bottom to keep the whole thing vertical. Pity you aren't closer or I'd show you!

You could then clad the outside or maybe get a plasterer to render it for you.

Bob

 

[Glynne]

I would agree with the DIY approach if you're fit enough. I built my workshop with blocks with no previous experience and it really was easy. I bought a BrickyMate to get an even thickness of mortar and just took my time in getting the layers level and vertical. I'm away from home at the moment but shout if you're interested and I'll post a couple of pictures.

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Glynne
I'd be grateful to see the pics as I'll be building mine soon. Did you do the roof yourself as well?

 

[Glynne]

Hi Mick,

Some pics below - I have posted some before so apologies to those who have already seen them.
The site is at the end of my garden and the labour (read my son) dug some foundations which we concreted.
Then some engineering bricks just in case the garden flooded.

Flooring insulation going in (note the labour has ceased to labour).

Blocks half height and window (free) going in - (note labour now spectating).

Bitumen corrugated roofing (Onduline) - there was a long thread about workshop roofs so you may want to look that up.

Block work and roof completed.

Roofing structure inside.

Completed workshop with timber cladding.

As I mentioned, I'm no bricky and my full time job was in IT so no previous experience building experience. I simply treated building the workshop as a project in it's own right (and to be enjoyed) and took my time. As I was going to clad the workshop inside and out, neatness wasn't an issue and I probably dropped more mortar than I actually used to build the thing.

As everyone else will tell you, if you build it 50% bigger than you think you need it will still be too small.

Hope that helps but if you want to know more, drop me a PM.

Glynne

 

[mickthetree]

Great stuff! Love to see a build. Cant wait to get started on mine.

 

[No skills]

I do love the positive attitude of this forum.

However there was a reason I was trying to sub it out, my health has been a bit crap this year - nothing major at all (and hats off to all of you dealing with major things and getting on with life) just lots of niggly things adding up and a still un-diagnosed respiratory problem that's getting on my nerves. I'd rather somebody else do the hard work this time and just leave me to stick a roof and door on it one weekend.

Still it looks like I'm going to have to do it myself anyway as this job is holding up other things I want to get done at home, wasted this month and a bit of last awaiting others - still stuff em. I've done a tiny bit of brick/block work and I have to say I was pretty bad at it - very slow as well, something that I would need a lot of time and practice at to do a reasonable job.

The price of the woodwool boards is very good compared to other cement based products (nobody look at the link?), if they are suitable from a fire proof point of view then I will go down this route. I think I can do the walls in one weekend and roof and door the next - its only really for storage at this point so doesn't need to be insulated and lined.

Could be the push I need to replace one of my old drills too...

 

[Andrewf]

Rather than look for a builder, I would look for a brickie to do the block work. Quite a few brickies sub contract to builders. They normally charge a daily rate with X number of blocks per day. The only drawback can be the cost in tea and buns. They all seem to eat constantly.

 

[Glynne]

I'd second going for a brickie who should charge you by the number of the blocks.
Although I built my shed, my next door neighbour is in fact a brickie but was a bit reluctant to do my block work as his wife would have made him do it at a ridiculously low price - and all said and done it is his livelihood. He did however advise against rendering as, like plastering, it is very much a skill and hence I opted for timber cladding which I'm very pleased with. Whilst I had the advantage of being able to ask his advice, I did take some serious stick about my block work (toned down for the forum) - both my speed and neatness leaving a lot to be desired but as long as it is straight and vertical then it doesn't matter.

Going back to the DIY option, I just did a few rough calculations and if your extension was say 9' x 9' x 9' high, then with blocks measuring 440mm x 215mm and allowing 10mm for mortar I make that about 6 layers - and with 3 sides (the garage being the 4th) you will have 6 + 6 + 6 = 18 / layer, so 108 in total which is not a lot. I think I had about 450 from memory.

I mentioned a thing called a Bricky Mate which is now called a Bricky Tool and the link shows how it's used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNL7sHrP-GY

I have one of these and would be happy to lend it to you but don't really want to sell it as I might use it again.
I travel to near Ipswich regularly so without knowing exactly where Little Poland is, I'm sure we could meet up half way or so.

 

[No skills]

I don't have to worry about how rubbish the render looks, the 'shed' is going on the far side of the garage - the only people to see it will be thieves and the odd fox

I am having a few days off next week and will have a good think about what to do. The woodwool boards are certainly the fastest option for me and speed is good - I want the shed useable by the end of next month and the winters coming, I generally work outside or at least inside the things I make but outside (if you see what I mean #-o #-o :lol: :lol: ) - don't like being out in the cold when I don't have to be.

Glynne

Thanks for the information and kind offer of the bricky tool, I wont take you up on the loan but I will look into getting one should I go block laying.

I'm going to go and price up both builds, see how they compare. If anybodys interested I'll post up my findings.

 

[mickthetree]

Yes, please do share your findings!

 

[Lons]

Hi No Skills

You don't need a brick mortar tool. Blocks are very easy to lay,

You can set out the walls using a 3/4/5 triange measurement or make a wood square then measure the diagonals to check the whole thing is square.

Put up the corners 2 or 3 high at a time using a spirit level and line them in with the existing building and each other then use a brick line between the corners at first row level and lay the first row of blocks to that, move the line up to the next level and repeat. Make sure the mortar is soft to sloppy as the blocks will suck out the moisture ans still will be hard to lay. Oh and it's very important that the blocks are dry as wet blocks will slide all over the place.
I could teach you in 30 minutes if you were closer to where I live.
Have a go - you'll enjoy it!

Bob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"Have a go - you'll enjoy it" :lol: Not if you're anything like me, you won't.

 

[No skills]

Well no time for all the prices yet, I'll have time tomorrow for sure.

Bob, thanks for the helpful advice. I hate handling cement and plaster (and flour!) so I know I wont enjoy doing it

Whilst thinking about timber framing earlier I remembered this old chestnut, some of you might not have seen it...

http://www.bcsportbikes.com/forum/showt ... t-even.....

Check out pages 1/5/7 for some pictures and a video, there are more further in but you'll have to look yourself. FWIW I do believe my neighbour mentored the chap doing the work.

See you soon.

 

[No skills]

Well I just had a quick tally up for building the walls in block - I don't know the quantity of sand and cement required for laying so I've allowed for a bulk bag of sand and 5 cement. Best let me know how far off I am

120 7n blocks
sand and cement
wall starter kits
dpm
concrete lintel
delivery charge (allowed £50)

£300

Obviously that's not including a mixer/trowel/string line/decent level/tea/food. Prices were grabbed from an online merchants, I could do better there.
I also have a few items laying round already so can save there, items include wall starters/roll of dpm/piece of box section I can use for a lintel and a mixer. Tea and food will be a significant outlay obviously


I'll price up the woodwool build next.

 

[Lons]

"Have a go - you'll enjoy it" :lol: Not if you're anything like me, you won't.

But it's soooooooo easy And at the end of it you've built something useful and saved money ( which can then be spent on tools :wink: ).

I'm not a brickie though I have had some training from a very good one. I don't rush it as I prefer to get it right and I have had a lot of practice over the years. I prefer working with stone as it's more interesting but building with 450 x 225 blocks is in itself satisfying 'cos the walls go up so quickly.

No skills

You might find it easier if you measure out when mixing. We use a 4 / 1 mix for blocks and using builders buckets put 4 buckets of sand and 1 of cement into a mixer for a full mix. Be aware that this amount will go a long way so you might want to half batch instead. Use some admix to make it more workable if you wish (the old practice of a little fairy liquid in the water is now frowned upon despite there being thousands of buildings still standing after decades without problems - it's up to you :wink: )

If you need to buy a trowel it will be far too large to handle easily and I personally would reduce the size with a grinder by a third if possible when it will be much more comfortable. I have one which has reduced over the years due to cutting bricks and I use nothing else.
You'll need a bolster and club hammer to cut the blocks and they are easily chopped, or use a grinder. Buy proper builders line which isn't expensive as it stretches enabling you to pull it tight and if you google corner blocks you might want to make up a couple in wood as it will save you time.

Bob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Bob, I'm quite good at electrics, plumbing, decorating, joinery and furniture making, glass cutting, silversmithing and basic car and motorcycle maintenance. I just hate cement and wallpaper. I can't help it, they are my blind spots, and I avoid them as much as I can. It might be interesting to have another thread - there must be very capable people here with hatreds and dislikes that appear strange to others. I had a guy in to do a small job that I was not certain about, and I felt quite extravagant - until my wife pointed out that it was 15yrs since I paid anyone to do anything!

 

[No skills]

Sounds like a good thread to start. I'll have a go later if nobody else does.