Measuring/Greetings/Banging My Head Against a Brick Wall

[El Barto]

Hello,

This is my first post and while I'd prefer it to be something a bit more interesting, I was hoping to get some advice on measuring dovetails. Unfortunately for me I have dyscalculia so measurements are proving tricky. The upshot is that once I know a formula it sticks in my mind (plus I write it down 8) ) and it usually doesn't bother me again, but it's the getting there that's a pain.

So while I've been reading up on various layout techniques and in theory I understand them, I still can't get even spacing on my dovetails. For instance, I'm making a box that will have three tails. The pins will be 5mm and the half pins will be 10mm. The tail board is 100mm high, as is the whole box.

I've tried splitting the board with a measure at an angle, and also the more complicated (for me at least) technique of measuring with a ruler and working out amounts to deduct etc.

Obviously I'm going wrong somewhere so any advice would be hugely appreciated, I'm sure I'm overcomplicating it in my head...

Thank you! (hammer) (homer) #-o

 

[El Barto]

Ps. Why didn't my smilies work (((

 

[Ttrees]

Hello
Welcome to the forum
Have you tried the dovetail dividers method ?
It looks like it is a method that might stay in your mind a bit more straight forward .
Its pretty quick too
Good luck El Barto

 

[RogerP]

Would a centering ruler help?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Centering-Rule ... B009GIFDR2

 

[El Barto]

Hello
Welcome to the forum
Have you tried the dovetail dividers method ?
It looks like it is a method that might stay in your mind a bit more straight forward .
Its pretty quick too
Good luck El Barto

Thanks for getting back to me. I haven't tried it yet but do have a pair of dividers in the post! You're right that it does look to be the more straightforward option, although I would like to master the other techniques too.

 

[El Barto]

Would a centering ruler help?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Centering-Rule ... B009GIFDR2

That is genius! Added to basket. But how would you apply it to the cutting of dovetails?

 

[RogerP]

I thought it might help with getting the layout equal (if that's what you are finding difficult).
Maybe in combination with template tool?

Something like this ...?
http://www.woodjoytools.com/layout/prec ... l-template
Not suggesting you buy but you could probably make something up much like it.

 

[El Barto]

I thought it might help with getting the layout equal (if that's what you are finding difficult).
Maybe in combination with template tool?

Something like this ...?
http://www.woodjoytools.com/layout/prec ... l-template
Not suggesting you buy but you could probably make something up much like it.

That looks really good. In terms of getting the layout equal, I can get the board divided up equally but then the trouble comes when I go to mark out the pins and tails. For example, if I'm measuring up for three tails, the middle one will always be slightly shorter than the outside two. It's very frustrating!

 

[flying haggis]

I thought it might help with getting the layout equal (if that's what you are finding difficult).
Maybe in combination with template tool?

Something like this ...?
http://www.woodjoytools.com/layout/prec ... l-template
Not suggesting you buy but you could probably make something up much like it.

Anybody got a 3d printer :wink:

 

[RogerP]

You need to first scribe (or draw with a pencil) a base line across the board. This ensures all the tails/pins are the same length.

 

[morturn]

Hi and welcome

+1 Dividers is a good way to go, have a look at Rob Cosman's video

Frank Clouse does his by eye, so one of his videos is worth a look at too.

 

[El Barto]

Nice one thanks for the tips guys. Morturn I'll check those videos out.

Anyway, pleased to be here!

 

[mbartlett99]

I've always used the divider method and the Rob Cosman video is very good - in fact I've never considered another way of doing it. Nice thing is no calcs are necessary; marking gauge, divider, knife, saw.

 

[El Barto]

I've always used the divider method and the Rob Cosman video is very good - in fact I've never considered another way of doing it. Nice thing is no calcs are necessary; marking gauge, divider, knife, saw.

I agree. I really like the idea of no calculations too. But in a slightly obsessive quest to learn as much as I can I've been trying to figure out the maths side of things too and have driven myself a bit mad.

Which Rob Cosman vid are you referring to? I checked out the one where he shows a student how to cut dovetails - that had a pretty good explanation of how to use dividers.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm not quite sure how your dyscalculia difficulty affects you, but perhaps a drawing of the ruler angled across the board method might help - see below. There's very little maths to the technique illustrated here, except finding a convenient divider for the number of pins required which, in this method, gives the approximate centre point of each pin. The pin's width is determined by the chosen chisel. It usually makes sense for the socket between tails to be a hair wider than the chosen chisel so that a single final cut through at the shoulder line leaves a single clean cut at that point. Slainte.

 

[custard]

There are loads of different methods of dovetailing and I wouldn't say that any one is necessarily better than another, if you find a method that works for you then that's all that matters.

But if you're having problems getting even spacing then it might be worth laying out the pattern on a piece of 6mm MDF first. That's what I tend to do if I've got a few drawers to do. You pencil out an exact copy of the drawer sides like this, run the layout lines over front edges of the MDF, then transfer directly onto your drawer sides,

Here's what it looks like in close up, you can see I used dividers to step out the spacing,

And here are some of the drawers that I've been making this weekend from that actual template, I'm now racing to get some commissions out of the workshop in time for Christmas!

I wouldn't always follow this approach on every drawer, but it does have some advantages. You can check you've made the half pins that extra bit wider on both sides, if you have graduated drawers you can see the pattern across all of them before you begin cutting, you can check that the tails can be efficiently chopped with any particular size chisel (in fact I lay out the end tails from the width of a particular chisel plus 1mm), and if you're making drawers to the classic English pattern with drawer slips and a reduced height drawer back then this kind of template helps you layout the back (the template in these photos is actually for the drawer backs) and furthermore it helps you check that the groove in the drawer front will be correctly concealed behind a tail.

Good luck!

 

[Shultzy]

If you use Sketchup there is a plugin which might help

https://sites.google.com/site/wudworx/plugins-and-tools/wwxdovetailsforsketchup

 

[mbartlett99]

I've always used the divider method and the Rob Cosman video is very good - in fact I've never considered another way of doing it. Nice thing is no calcs are necessary; marking gauge, divider, knife, saw.

I agree. I really like the idea of no calculations too. But in a slightly obsessive quest to learn as much as I can I've been trying to figure out the maths side of things too and have driven myself a bit mad.

Which Rob Cosman vid are you referring to? I checked out the one where he shows a student how to cut dovetails - that had a pretty good explanation of how to use dividers.

I was given his drawer making dvd as a present but I'm sure there's a youtube of the dovetails.

 

[El Barto]

Thanks again for all the tips fellas. Much obliged.

 

[ED65]

It was mentioned in passing but here's pic showing Frank Klausz's method for doing it sans measurement:

In case it's not immediately apparent Klausz was a proponent of pins first. Don't know if you've come across this eternal debate but try not to get bogged down trying to decide whether pins first or tails first is the way to go. There are extremely passionate devotees of each way who can list chapter and verse about why their way is better but clearly they both work just fine so it's just a matter of picking one and running with it.