Marketing advice

[HOJ]

I assume I can ask marketing question on here, if not, sorry, Mods, please remove.

Along side my general joinery, doors ,windows, stairs etc, I make Oak Suffolk latches which I sell as part of the deal with the internal doors I make, I have not, as yet looked at selling them as separate items, but a quick google and I can find various sellers offering similar items.

All seem to sell at different costs, from £18.99 on ebay with free P&P. to over a £100.00 with one supplier?

The real questions are, if I chose to offer them to market, what stock should I aim to keep, or, offer them on a made to order basis, where would be best to advertise them, ebay, etsy, not on the high street etc, not sure how the charges apply to any of these at the moment.

I am building a new website but not sure I will set up a shop on there, at the moment.

The base cost for me is nominal as the materials are waste, I have all the jigs set up and produce them very efficiently and quickly.

Any thoughts and opinions please.

Paul

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

This is absolutely no worries Paul. Your post isn't aimed at selling your goods, it's a technical question about how to structure your business to best advantage. Perfectly reasonable. Some business owners on this site will deliberately post commercially intended adverts of their product or service with just a thinly disguised "veil" of content that attempts to camouflage the true purpose in a bid to solicit business while avoiding paying advertising fees.

Yours clearly has no such agenda.

With respect to your question:

My experience of marketing is that in a nutshell "it's fickle". By that I mean one business process that may have worked for years (back page display of trade magazine for instance) may suddenly stop working. Similarly, a new previously untried method will open up and start producing leads or direct customers. The key is to test test test. Examine the results critically and then put more investment behind the approaches that yield results.

I've no idea why this happens but perhaps its to do with people tiring of seeing the same selling messages repeated in the same media channels. Marketing is a very dynamic business process and needs freshness for its message to strike. So I would be inclined to simply try as many as budget will allow, measure the results and then pump more investment into the ones that succeed best. What about large garden centres? Would a model of one of your doors with the delightful craft style latches have a home in a showroom as well as the different online routes?

 

[Lons]

Hi Paul
That's sound advice from bob.
I fitted a number of oak doors years ago and incorporated handmade oak latches which are widely admired but I'm not generally a door maker and never reproduced them for sale.

If selling on line, ebay etc. I would just state the delivery time to suit your timetable and make them to order. most buyers are expecting to wait a few days for delivery so I don't see a problem.
Personally, I would invest some time and as Bob suggests, make up some small sample doors for display. Even though your competitors I would also look at approaching some of the "floors and doors" type outlets as they buy in and might well be interested, you might even get some door sales through them. Market gardens are a great idea, maybe some of the small bespoke house builders? possibly craft fairs but most likely you'll get diyers taking pics and copying your ideas.
Selling price is more difficult but if you check the ebay listings you should be able to see who is actually selling any. No good listing at £100 if you don't sell any when you might get loads of orders at say £30. As you say you production costs or nominal so just find a figure you're happy with. Don't set too low though as you can always discount or special offer whilst much more difficult to increase prices.

cheers
bob

 

[RobinBHM]

Ive bought suffolk latches from here

http://www.countyhardwoods.co.uk/ironmo ... atch.html/

I know they buy them from a one man band business local to them.

I would have thought they would only be worthwhile making in quite big batches to keep the labour low. There isnt much material content, almost from scraps if you use a fair bit of oak, so its mostly labour content. I think I would just commit a day or two to make a decent batch, then store them for sale.

You need to think whether total costs including packaging and marketing even order taking make it worthwhile.

 

[blackrodd]

On some of the older properties I work in, there are some original oak suffolk latches, usually quite basic.
That link Robin, shows a really nice example and at £28.00, i would say a snip!
I would think that they would sell more than 1 at a time, so be prepared to make a few!
Regards Rodders

 

[Mark A]

How about approaching arty/rustic/reclaim/antique emporiums? Not proper reclamation yards; the sort of place which sells extortionately-priced potpourri and has a Ye Olde Tea Shoppe inside.

I visited such an establishment recently up near the Lakes called Yew Tree Barn

Make enquiries. I'm certain you'll find somewhere willing to stock handmade items.

Mark

 

[HOJ]

Thank you for all the responses, I am still working out my overheads, I usually make these in batches, trouble is they look similar to the ones in the link!, not sure if they are copyrighted material.

The main reason I am looking at this as an option is to try and earn some money and recoup the extra costs I am about
to incur by moving my workshop, having been where I am for nearly 10 years, I have been "evicted" by the local planning enforcement department, got till the 27 May to be gone, not found a new home yet, but that's another tale.

So, in the meantime I can make these at my home workshop.

I live close to the market town of Bungay, with a few "emporiums" well worth me doing some door stepping there.

I have to say not keen on the web selling as my broadband is carp so could be problematic.

Thanks again

Paul

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

its also worth going to the emporia and asking them what they have demand for rather then going with a product and then making that instead or in addition maybe??

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

These look like a promising item, but one thing occurs to me. Who do you expect to fit them? I could be wrong, but selling at some emporium, as suggested above, where browsers are just looking for fancy goods to amuse them, are not usually capable of fitting a woodworking project. Any that are will be making the latches for themselves. It could be a good business opportunity (or a PITA) to offer a fitting service with the purchase. Otherwise, wouldn't it be better to sell these through local DIY outlets and door stores. At least the customers will be more likely to be able to fit them, or be employing tradesmen who will do it for them.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

I'd do them in sizeable batches. 20? 50?
Several good reasons for this:
You have them in stock and can supply by return of post
Much more efficient and makes better use of your time
Until you do a few long runs you can't really cost things realistically - as a rule one-offs are very expensive and the cost goes down rapidly with batches.
Long runs means quality improvement - you find yourself refining and rationalising repeated operations
Forget trade, I'd sell them retail only, via your website as first choice, then via Ebay, Etsy, Gumtree etc. Or at shows except you might need a range of products to make it worth turning out for.

 

[davin]

I would personally stay away from Ebay.
I have sold lots of furniture on there. It is so depressing to see something you have made sell cheaply to someone who just wants a bargain.
Have a look at Etsy. I am thinking of trying to supplement income by selling some pieces on there. Spoke to a guy who sells large knobs (woof) made out oak and other hardwood offcuts. simply turned, nothing special. Doesn't make a fortune. But every little helps.
Unlike Ebay the people on etsy are looking for a crafty hand made object and will spend more than ebay bargain hunters..
worth a look.
Davin

 

[Lons]

That's a good point about fitting.
however The ones I made and fitted were dead easy and a simple instruction sheet pref with some pics supplied with each order would be worth doing.

 

[petermillard]

The trouble with selling to artsy/crafty emporia is that they want a decent chunk of the sale price, at least round here. No harm in making enquiries of course, but don't be shocked if the item you want £30 from sells at £70 by the time they've added their margin and VAT - or worse, they want to sell them for £30 so can only buy them in at £12...

Offering as local fitting service could be a way of differentiating yourself from the likes of these guys of course, as long as you make it clear it's an additional cost, not included in the price of the latch :shock:

Your own website but linked to an Etsy shop for online sales might be the simplest option??

Pete

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

that raises an interesting question.....what is the rule of thumb for the price markup by a retailer (in general I mean). So if I turned something fine and wanted a gallery to take it what difference between my sell price and their customer price would I expect?

 

[petermillard]

that raises an interesting question.....what is the rule of thumb for the price markup by a retailer (in general I mean). So if I turned something fine and wanted a gallery to take it what difference between my sell price and their customer price would I expect?

In my experience, 50% + VAT before the customer sees it, i.e. if I want £200, the customer needs to be paying £480 in the 'emporium'; killed my (admittedly vague) idea stone dead...

Pete

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

wow that's pretty scary!

 

[Lons]

that raises an interesting question.....what is the rule of thumb for the price markup by a retailer (in general I mean). So if I turned something fine and wanted a gallery to take it what difference between my sell price and their customer price would I expect?

In my experience, 50% + VAT before the customer sees it, i.e. if I want £200, the customer needs to be paying £480 in the 'emporium'; killed my (admittedly vague) idea stone dead...

Pete

Depends how you read that Peter. To me that equates to the retailer adding 100% plus VAT mark up on your asking price which is exactly what I would say is normal.

cheers
Bob

 

[HOJ]

I didn't see this going on this far......

Thanks all again.

Ebay is no no, i think i had made up my mind on that one, i have an account with Etsy so may look to push in that direction, along with other small items I make.

There are a lot of craft fairs around and about, a pal of mine who is a wood turner and generally goes to most of them, I will have to discuss my positioning along side his stall.

I can make batches of up 10 at a time, the way my jigs are set up, so 1 day a week could probably support the huge demand!.

Fitting, mmmm, the reason I get the extra's work I do, is because the homeowners generally cant even hang a picture, maybe an option to add value, to fit them as well, that's as long as they buy locally.

Having said that i would assume most distant customers will have bought a door from somewhere else, to be fitted by a chippy, perhaps, and need a latch for it.

Might even have a word when I go to Howdens next, they sell doors!

Like what the guys in your link offer, Peter, another website will be under way soon, but, still building my replacement for my main web presence.

The more I read from everyone about this, I think the upshot will probably be that I sell directly, I can then deal on my own terms and keep the end price reasonable, 100% mu, I would like to have some of that for myself.

 

[petermillard]

Depends how you read that Peter. To me that equates to the retailer adding 100% plus VAT mark up on your asking price which is exactly what I would say is normal.

cheers
Bob

Oh, absolutely. I have no problem with the people who bear the bulk of the overhead adding a decent mark-up (and if anyone doubts that, take a look into the rents, rates and staffing costs of even the smallest high street shop), it's simply a cost that needs to be factored in before you embark on a venture.

In my case, I'd made a coffee table (on commission) from a plan chest - nothing special, but it turned out quite nicely, and I wondered idly if there was a market for a 'collectors' coffee table; same idea, but with a glass top so you could see the contents of the upper-most drawer. Perfect, I thought, for collectors of... vintage watches, cigarette cards, painted miniatures, books, illustrations, whatever. So I pitched the idea to a few of the local 'emporia' and their (interestingly consistent) response was that they could probably move these at around the £800 mark. But when you factor in the VAT, (£~135) and their margin, I'd have to make one of these for around £330 - or put another way, no chance!

Funnily enough, IKEA now have something similar (well, along the same lines) for £165...

As I said earlier, no harm in asking the question - just be realistic regarding the answer!

Pete

 

[Jacob]

I don't think you really need to bother with retail outlets any longer - the net is so widely used and also very cheap.
I wouldn't say no to Ebay either - it's worth trying everything you never know, and it's not expensive.