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Makita vac with cyclone.

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DBT85

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I haven't changed it over yet, but I have a Bernardo 3HP blower assembly on my 5-inch cyclone that I will put on the 6-inch cyclone.



When I change out the 5-inch cyclone, I'll fix the mistakes I made in the original installation, such as the two 90-degree bends at the cyclone input. I'll also change out the 120mm ducting with 150mm ducting. Because the SDD XL is taller than the SDD that's installed, I have to replace the plastic 35-gallon bin with a shorter 35-gallon bin I made from 19mm plywood.
A larger cyclone requires a larger airflow does it not?

I noted with interest the other day that my own 2.2kw blower only has a 300x90 impellor. The most I could get it to draw with the 150mm inlet open fully was 1200w. I think that means the impellor could sized up to generate a larger airflow and static pressure.
 

MikeK

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Do you know the size of the new cyclone @MikeK?
Here's the link to the Oneida page for the SDD XL:


Scroll down and click on the Specifications tab. The SDD XL is 19 inches in diameter at the top of the cone and 37.5 inches tall. The height to the center of the inlet is 31 inches. By contrast, the steel SDD I have is 17 inches in diameter and 26.5 inches tall.
 

MikeK

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A larger cyclone requires a larger airflow does it not?

I noted with interest the other day that my own 2.2kw blower only has a 300x90 impellor. The most I could get it to draw with the 150mm inlet open fully was 1200w. I think that means the impellor could sized up to generate a larger airflow and static pressure.
Yes, and my blower is the maximum for the steel SDD I'm using now, and the minimum for the SDD XL I'll install. I'm expecting an improvement in airflow with the new cyclone and ducting, but will baseline the outgoing cyclone with a straight 2-meter section of ducting before I remove it. When I tear down the system, I'll measure the impeller diameter and width.

I also noticed, more by luck than design, that the impeller turns in the same direction as the airflow entering the cyclone. I can't remember where I read it, but the rotation of the air column created by the blower should match the natural flow of air into the cyclone.

I have a Dwyer 477AV digital manometer and calibrated pitot tube, but can't remember the airflow I currently have. I do remember it was not as much as I expected, but attributed the lower flow to the number of bends in the ducting. This is what prompted me to change the cyclone and ducting. I foolishly put more emphasis on form rather than function when I designed my system.

The system works well, but I think it can be better.
 

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Here's the link to the Oneida page for the SDD XL:


Scroll down and click on the Specifications tab. The SDD XL is 19 inches in diameter at the top of the cone and 37.5 inches tall. The height to the center of the inlet is 31 inches. By contrast, the steel SDD I have is 17 inches in diameter and 26.5 inches tall.
Thanks Mike
 

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Many of the 3hp cyclones have 12"/300mm impellers, the same as the 2hp models. The reason the 3hp moves more air than the 2hp is because the 3s come with two filters which allow more airflow. 3hp DC's with bigger impellers would be the thing to look for if not working with something already owned.

I don't know how much of an improvement Mike will get without adding more filter area but the upsizing to 150mm/6" ducting will help. The best scenario would be to change one thing, like adding the cyclone, take measurements and then repeat after the next change and so on. Then you know what makes the best improvements.

Pete
 

MikeK

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Many of the 3hp cyclones have 12"/300mm impellers, the same as the 2hp models. The reason the 3hp moves more air than the 2hp is because the 3s come with two filters which allow more airflow. 3hp DC's with bigger impellers would be the thing to look for if not working with something already owned.

I don't know how much of an improvement Mike will get without adding more filter area but the upsizing to 150mm/6" ducting will help. The best scenario would be to change one thing, like adding the cyclone, take measurements and then repeat after the next change and so on. Then you know what makes the best improvements.

Pete
I think I'm good on filter area. :)

This is a pair of Wynn 35B222NANO filters, each with a Wynn 18FP30 filter pan, for a total of 504 square feet of MERV 15 filter area.



Before I completely disassemble the existing system, I will rotate the Oneida steel SDD about 90 degrees clockwise so the inlet port is facing into the shop through the dust collection room door. Then I'll block off the dust bin port completely and attach four meters of the 120mm ducting to the inlet port. Blocking the dust bin port at the bottom of the cyclone will be the equivalent of a properly sealed collection bin, and I won't have to worry about any leaks. I'll run some tests with the Dwyer manometer and pitot tube at the 2-meter point in the ducting on the horizontal and vertical axis in the ducting.

Then I'll install the Oneida SDD XL and repeat the tests with four meters of 150mm ducting.
 

MikeK

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'fess up, Mike. You don't actually make any sawdust....that floor is way too clean:)
You should have seen the inside of the filters when the plastic bin collapsed and I didn't catch it in time. :mad: I only noticed after two hours of cutting 19mm plywood that the pressure gauge I use to monitor the filter status was had climbed, whereas it normally never budges off of zero. It took me over an hour to clean the filters, and then I made a brace for the inside of the plastic bin.

I am quite happy to say the dust collection closet is the cleanest room in the basement. The rest of the shop does not stay so clean during heavy use, especially around the mitre saw. However, I am confident that the fine stuff is whisked away and I'm not so worried about the heavier stuff that falls to the floor.
 

DBT85

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Many of the 3hp cyclones have 12"/300mm impellers, the same as the 2hp models. The reason the 3hp moves more air than the 2hp is because the 3s come with two filters which allow more airflow. 3hp DC's with bigger impellers would be the thing to look for if not working with something already owned.

Pete
This was my feeling too after looking at mine last week. I suspect that the 3hp motor is just put onto the exact same everything as the 2hp and sold based on larger made up numbers, I'm not even sure that the outlet from the housing is any larger on the 3hp machines. Mine has the Y split to go from the impeller housing outlet to the filters, but the outlet from the impeller housing is the exact same size as each of the 2 outlets from the Y (178cm2 area), suggesting that there should be no reason to not just stack 2 filters tall rather than have them side by side in the fashion they come in. A 150mm diameter pipe would have an area of 176cm2. The 100mm inlet adapters that come with the machines (and look identical to the one seen in Mikes motor link above) have just 78.5cm2 area.

I know Pentz replaced his 300mm impeller with something nearer 375mm as after taking measurements the motor could handle it. I have to think mine is the same as it's only drawing a little over 1200w but I would need to do more checking before even attempting to make an impeller and housing like Mattius or others have done. I do at least have that little book about making your own!

I am also under the impression that impellers also perform better when they are 2 disks with blades in between rather than how they typically come which is just one disk and blades.

On mine, the 300x90 impeller with the big opening removed to reveal a 305mm opening still only draws 1500w and that number can only go down as resistance is added.

I did see a youtube video just today about a chap replaing his 250mm harbour freight impeller with a 300mm rikon one and he saw 20% increases in air flow and 38% increase in static pressure. Though the oddity was that he didn't have to change the housing, so the old one was undersized for its housing.
 

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I use a small cyclone on top of a popcorn tub without a PRV to clean the ash from the wood burner for the last three years & I've not had the tub collapse or even attempt to.
My larger collection bucket houses a Thien baffle, which being internal is better balanced than a cyclone mounted on top. That does have a PRV which I posted how to make from bits you probably have kicking about,
- Tips & Tricks
 
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murphy

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I have to replace the plastic 35-gallon bin with a shorter 35-gallon bin I made from 19mm plywood.
I made a plywood drum about 16" square and it worked fine, all the metal dustbins I had collapsed, the problem with any container is emptying it into a plastic bag for disposal
 

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I've seen a YouTube video somewhere, maybe by Peter Parfitt whereby he puts a black bin bag inside the drum underneath his cyclone. Using a shop vac he sucks the air out of the gap between the drum and the bag to make the bag "stick" to the drum causing a small vacuum that then prevents the extractor from potentially sucking up the bag itself.
 

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I've seen a YouTube video somewhere, maybe by Peter Parfitt whereby he puts a black bin bag inside the drum underneath his cyclone. Using a shop vac he sucks the air out of the gap between the drum and the bag to make the bag "stick" to the drum causing a small vacuum that then prevents the extractor from potentially sucking up the bag itself.
There are a few dust collectors that come with a hose to the barrel from the upstream side of the impeller to do the same without the need of a vacuum cleaner. 3 HP Cyclone Dust Collector at Grizzly.com

Pete
 

MikeK

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I've seen a YouTube video somewhere, maybe by Peter Parfitt whereby he puts a black bin bag inside the drum underneath his cyclone. Using a shop vac he sucks the air out of the gap between the drum and the bag to make the bag "stick" to the drum causing a small vacuum that then prevents the extractor from potentially sucking up the bag itself.
I have the Ultimate Dust Deputy for my CT-36 vacuum, and it uses a small hose connected to the main hose and the bin to equalize the vacuum on the other side of the plastic bag. This has the same effect as the Grizzly in Pete's link.

For my larger dust bin, I will use a wire frame inside the bin, with the large plastic bag between the inner wall of the bin and the wire frame. The bag will be fully contained in the bin, so the vacuum will be on (hopefully) all sides. Just in case, the wire frame will keep the bag in place and prevent it from being sucked up into the impeller.
 

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MikeK you might want to see about getting one of these bin sensors. iVAC Fill Level Meter - iVac
I only became aware of them recently and don't think you could make one for less. I don't know if it runs on line voltage or from a wall wart but even if it is only 110V a simple transformer doesn't cost a pile.

Pete

Looks like it does run on low voltage with a USB connection.
 

MikeK

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MikeK you might want to see about getting one of these bin sensors. iVAC Fill Level Meter - iVac
I only became aware of them recently and don't think you could make one for less. I don't know if it runs on line voltage or from a wall wart but even if it is only 110V a simple transformer doesn't cost a pile.

Pete

Looks like it does run on low voltage with a USB connection.
Thanks, Pete. This would work well on my current bin, but might not be so good on the new bin. The new bin has an internal dimension of 600mm square by 450mm tall. This is about 43 US gallons (35 Imperial gallons). With fixed height measurements, it would be on the second green LED when the bin is empty.

I have the Oneida Bin Sensor, but it is designed for thinner bin tops, such as the metal bins Oneida sells.

The iVAC appears to be a better design, so I'll give it a try when I change my dust collection over to the new cyclone and bin.

Update: I ordered the iVAC from Toolovation.
 
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