Making skirting / door case / architrave?

[cjard]

The next major task I'll need to attend to with my building project is skirting, architrave and door cases. I'd like oak, but quotes are coming in somewhere around the eye watering mark. I've estimated I'll need around 500 linear metres of skirt/arch and I'm toying with the idea of making it instead of buying it

I see I can get pallet loads of oak of a sawn thickness, varying but reasonably consistent width (120mm) and long length for around 950 quid a cubic metre (27 quid a cu ft) and I'm guessing I'd need a planer/thicknesser to tidy it up. I'm not after any fancy profile, I actually just want a rectangle section with a groove near the top- I can do it on the table saw I reckon

I've got 3 phase power available and I'm not afraid to put the necessary money at getting the right tool (given that PAR seems to be 3x the price of sawn..); looks like 500 quid tops would get something secondhand that'd be good for the job.. I may also be able to borrow use of one in someone else's workshop and just buy him a new set of blades and some beers as a thank you

A few questions:
Is this a fools errand? Will I buy a load of kiln dried sawn timber, plane it, fit it and then find it warped all over the place in a years time?

How many sets of blades will I go through/how long would a set reasonably last on oak?

I don't really care if the faces aren't perfectly parallel cos it's only skirting, so do I need a thicknesser or will a planer do? Is square cut timber near enough square that planed faces would only be at most a few mm out of parallel?

If a planer/thicknesser was only 50% more money than a planer, is it a worthwhile investment?

Am I correct in thinking that a table top p/t isn't going to be up to the task, and I should be looking at something floor standing, 16 amp or 3 phase? E.g a record pt260, or would a good portable one be more useful/adequate/easy to store?

Is 950 a cube a good price for kiln dried oak?

Thanks guys
CJ

 

[Fitzroy]

I'm sure others with way more experience will be along shortly but what you are paying for is man hours and wastage, and my experience is that it is very difficult to understand either of these factors as an amateur.

I know the oak you are talking about on eBay, as I have bought some for one of my projects, and it's not bad stuff but it does have knots and that is where your problems will start. If you want clear boards you'll be cutting out every knot and end up with very short lengths, however if you leave the knots in then finishing the boards will be difficult due to tearout.

For the job you'll need the tools to do the following. Straighten one edge (planer or track saw), cut to consistent width (table saw or track saw), finish one side (planer or thicknesser), profile (router table or spindle moulder). You could in theory do all this with a hand plane and hand saw, it's just about how much time you have.

I'm building a shed at the moment and have chosen to clad it in larch. To save money I bought rough sawn larch and I'm planing it smooth and finishing it straight, I need 450 linear meters, sounding familiar? It doesn't take ages to straighten, cut to width, plane one side etc but I'm planing to thickness in one heavy pass so the board finish still has plenty of tearout. From the 500 meters of sawn board I've sorted the knotty ones to go on the back where they are not seen, and I've lost 10+ boards all together as they are too waney / crooked even for a shed! So far it's taken 3 weekends to do about half the 450 meters.

If I were to be attempting what you plan I'd want a decent planer thicknesser and table saw, three sets of blades for the p/t and be prepared to change them as soon as the finish drops off, a lot of bags for the gajillion shavings, 50% more oak than I think I need, or higher quality oak (£1500-1750 / cube) to avoid having to try to deal with those very knotty or twisted boards, 40 hours of spare time, lots of patience, and acceptance that you will not end up with 500m of clear and clean, super quality finished skirting.

I'm not trying to poop on your parade but this is exactly the kind of job that I'd take on, seeing thousands of pounds of money to save, and only afterwards really appreciating the effort/pain.

Regards

Fitz.

 

[RobinBHM]

The timber might seem a lot less expensive than the quotes youve had for finished mouldings, but you will be surprised at the waste %, around 35 to 40. Also you may be comparing prime mouldings with low grade oak.

When I get in orders for mouldings, if they are biggish runs, I just buy it in. Usually mouldings dont cost much more than the sawn timber, cettainly not enough to be worth doing it myself even though I have the machines to make it quite quickly.

Try getting quotes for your skirting and architrave from a timber importer rather than a merchant.

Timbmet for example have their machining done in Glasgow so maybe try them. You will need at least 100 metres of 1 section to be worth setting up a moulder, less for PAR

Alternatively do some rooms in painted mdf and the important rooms, like hallway, lounge etc in oak

 

[dzj]

If it's properly kiln dried, then there's no difference between that and the store bought kind.

How many sets of blades you go through depends on the quality of the steel, length of blades, number of blades,
quality of wood, number of passes...A smaller machine would probably need a touch up of the blades after ~0.5 m3.

500 linear metres is not a small job, so I'd go for a thicknesser. A cast iron one, the bigger the better.

I'm not from the UK, so I can't comment on the price.

Unless you plan on doing this kind of work on a regular basis, perhaps you could get in touch with a joinery shop
with a 4 sided planer and pay them to do the milling.
Good luck.

 

[Dan j]

Square cut rough sawn timber can vary a lot, so a thicknesser would be preferable.
A big consideration is also the additional time it might take to fit. If you have to fit boards in two lenghts along a wall and they vary in thickness, this will be a nightmare.

Try getting prices for a local joinery shop to machine up for you.

You could always consider veneered oak skirting. Not as forgiving to work with as solid timber but may save you money in the long run.

 

[cjard]

Been looking at veneered, and also MDF foiled- I know from the kitchen fit that foiling is a pain in the buttocks to cut if there's the slightest chance the mitre saw blade will be coming tooth up through the material at any point, as it tends to pluck the foil (almost a spoonerism)..

Veneered would, I dare say, be A little more forgiving of such and the prices I've found look to be about 4 quid a metre.. This is half the price of oak skirting, but twice the price of planing myself.. It's probably on that tipping point where, when I balance up the time I have available to build this darned house, a full time job too and a family to tend, maybe I should just pay the money and delete the hassle..

 

[Phil Pascoe]

When did you last walk into someone's house and think Wow! What wonderful skirting boards? I wonder what the skirting boards in the other rooms are like? :lol:
Think about it.

 

[MattRoberts]

Matt Cremona recently did a few videos on doing skirting for his house that might be worth checking out. They look great, but it's a massive job! And he milled the wood from his own stock, so it didn't cost him.

One of the biggest challenges is the corners. To get them looking good, you need to cope the mitres. Also, you might not care about parallel faces, but if they aren't all parallel and equal thickness they will not meet at the corners.

If you're set on doing it, then a decent planer thicknesser is the way to go

 

[Petey83]

I had the same dilemma recently and came to the ultimate conclusion that i really didn't need oak or pine. In the end I bought 5 sheets of 18mm MR MDF and a new chamfer bit for the router and will make it all using the track saw, parallel guides and router table. Saved me over £100 on buying it in pre made.

If you really want oak then you'll need a planner thicknesser as others have mentioned.

If you're meant a square edge profile I can see why oak would be a better choice but I'd consider otter options before committing

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I considered using otters for mine, but settled for wood in the end. :lol:

 

[cjard]

I've got some spare Karndean, come to think of it..

Shadow gaps on the next house, I think..

 

[cjard]

What if I use beavers instead! Will they bring their own wood?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Make sure they're not wide open beavers - all the gaps will show.

 

[No skills]

For man with a full time job this project is madness. Stop save up for a while and buy the stuff in.

 

[Nelsun]

If you do make your own, I'd suggest giving great thought as to how you're going to finish it; in particular where you're gonna leave it to dry. I'm rolling my own MR-MDF coving and skirtings (~15m of each) and have the 2.4m strips laid flat on bits of 4x2 CLS to keep the edges up off the floor. It fills the room meaning I can do sausage all in there until it's all dry (and the gloss is taking a while to dry!). Some kind of rack system with a drop down cover to keep dust out would have been the way to go had clever clogs here thought first and started painting second!

I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Someone said words to the effect off, "it's only skirtings. who looks at them anyway?". Even if nobody bats an eyelid at them, I will not be kicking myself every time I go in the room and see makes-me-want-to-hurl bog-standard bought-in skirtings. My house may not be a shiny new warehouse sized new build as is the way up here, but it will not have 100mm varnished pine trimmings everywhere your eye may wander. No sir. Not on my watch! Sorry, getting a tad carried away there

 

[ColeyS1]

For man with a full time job this project is madness. Stop save up for a while and buy the stuff in.

I think I'm inclined to agree. Hopefully someone smashing this out professionally would have the necessary machined to do this job to a good quality. Chatter marks, slips on the table saw, lost fingers all would steer me towards buying if you weren't suitably tooled up. That's not to say it can't be done, but is it really worth it, after all its only plain skirting, with a quirk.
Factor in your own time and how much you could earn by doing your normal paid job, and I doubt it's worth the hassle tbh.

Coley

 

[RobinBHM]

A 500 metre run is about 1 1/2 cubic metres, around 180 boards and about 1000Kg.....

The timber cost for a 120mm skirting is around £4.30+vat (allows 35% waste)

cost to buy is about £7.50+vat per metre
http://www.loveskirting.co.uk/skirting- ... metre-p630

The above do have a large order quote system, so the price should come down a bit.

The difference is £1600+vat

The tricky part of the machining is actually likely to be straightening the boards, quite time consuming without the right equipment. Most boards will need edge trimming either to straighten up or to remove edge faults like excess sap.

 

[Fitzroy]

The tricky part of the machining is actually likely to be straightening the boards, quite time consuming without the right equipment. Most boards will need edge trimming either to straighten up or to remove edge faults like excess sap.

Tell me about it, the under boards on my shed board and batten cladding were just an easy once through the planer and whack them up, the cover boards that all had to be straightened and edge trimmed took stuffing ages!

Fitz.

 

[jackss565]

Cost of 120mm PAR oak, from us is £5.75 + VAT per meter. Cost of rough sawn using your figures is around £4.50 + VAT depending on wastage. Over 500 meters you would save £625, and machining would probably take you around 2 days. Is that £625 enough reward for 2 days work when you include the cost of the machine?

 

[cjard]

For man with a full time job this project is madness. Stop save up for a while and buy the stuff in.

By project, do you mean building a house solo or were you just talking about the skirting bit.. ?