• We invite you to join UKWorkshop.
    Members can turn off viewing Ads!

Making Oil Paint.

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

Adam W.

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2021
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
2,391
Location
London, Jutland.
Thank you, it needs more veneering on the till lid and another set of trays in the front, but it's slowly coming together. I've got another mahogany one on the go which will be a lot more fancy once I practice my veneering a bit more.

That's interesting to hear about your experiences and I've found a place where I can get all the pigments now, but it only comes in 1.8kg bags which is a lot of pigment.

I'll add the zinc oxide for the window paint, like you said. It'd be well worth it here because it's fungus central.

So the question is now, what colour shall I paint the windows ?
 

Adam W.

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2021
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
2,391
Location
London, Jutland.
Thanks to @Jorny for the suggestion, I have now bought some Zinc oxide to add as a fungicide for linseed oil paint to use on the outside of the house windows and I'll also be adding Titanium white pigment to the paint for colour.

After a quick google, I've accessed a Norwegian research document on the addition of Zinc oxide as a fungicide (luckily I can speak Norwegian, so it's plain sailing from here) and I hope to glean the best practice on its use in paint. So far it looks like quantities over 7% add a certain level of protection against mould growth.

I'll report back later with my findings, for those who's grasp of the Norwegian language is limited.

 

bob543

Established Member
Joined
3 Jan 2020
Messages
23
Reaction score
43
Location
cumbria
Linseed oil never really dries totally and will eventually decompose into soaps etc... eventually especially with pigments added containing metals.
Never use linseed oil from a shop for food use ,it has various anti oxidants in it which prevent it drying.
Being a violin maker/ bow maker ive made hundreds of various varnishes using linseed oil over the last 35 years . Also im a trained chemist and have made my own pigments from scratch , from madder lakes , to prussian blue to chrome yellow etc.......for art use.
The pigments added to oil paints will change drying times alot , iron pigments are usually one example of fast drying when in linseed oil. .
 

paulrbarnard

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2017
Messages
894
Reaction score
974
Location
Shepton Mallet, UK
I've not looked into it for many years but milk paint was a really nice finish indoors and stuck with me as one of the better low tech paints. it gives an extremely low build very tough paint. a bit like a wash.but done properly it's very attractive....and only as poisonous as the pigments in the paint!
I used a milk paint on my tool chest with an oil finish on top. It’s lasted very well. The chest is about 20 years old and spent a couple of years in a wet storage shed. It’s developed a nice patina but actually still looks good.
 

Adam W.

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2021
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
2,391
Location
London, Jutland.
Linseed oil never really dries totally and will eventually decompose into soaps etc... eventually especially with pigments added containing metals.
Never use linseed oil from a shop for food use ,it has various anti oxidants in it which prevent it drying.
Being a violin maker/ bow maker ive made hundreds of various varnishes using linseed oil over the last 35 years . Also im a trained chemist and have made my own pigments from scratch , from madder lakes , to prussian blue to chrome yellow etc.......for art use.
The pigments added to oil paints will change drying times alot , iron pigments are usually one example of fast drying when in linseed oil. .
I got all my supplies from a paint and specialist material suppliers, so hopefully it should be the right stuff, but who knows? Most of these places have sprung up over the last 5 years or so and jumped on the eco friendly building wagon, and like anything there are both good and bad amongst them and the prices vary wildly.

I'll just have to see how it goes and as I said earlier it's an experiment like most things I get up too, but I'm grateful of any advice from others with any relevant experience.

In your opinion, is mixing zinc oxide and titanium white the right way to go and what effect would it have on drying times of cold pressed linseed oil if any ?

My first window paint mix is 200g cold pressed oil, 20g of zinc oxide, 30g of titanium white.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,114
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Derbyshire
I've really no clue as to whether linseed makes better more durable paint as I try to desperately avoid traditional painting( alkyd ) at all costs. I find the whole shenanigans to be a drawn out nightmare. certainly not compatible with making any money! I love spray painting using ankerstuy paints it's an absolute joy to use. no idea on durability atm though. the finish is just breathtaking and it dries so it can be stacked in just a few hours. water based so no nasty niffs.
do you need a muller to grind pigments into oil? I do know certain pigments work extra well with linseed( think lead minium)
Linseed oil paint is less "durable" in itself and will weather from the surface and gradually disappear - but very easy to touch up and maintain indefinitely.
Alkyd paints are much more durable but don't stick so well and are more difficult to maintain. Eventually it detaches itself, water gets in behind it. Worst case: eventually paint flakes off the flakes still shiny and in good condition, but the wood left behind water logged and rotten.
Modern paints were the kiss of death to the wooden window and a big factor in the change to plastic
I've only ever used Allback linseed paint so it's very interesting to read the posts above!
 
Last edited:

Jorny

Established Member
Joined
13 Mar 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
8
Location
Sweden
I got all my supplies from a paint and specialist material suppliers, so hopefully it should be the right stuff, but who knows? Most of these places have sprung up over the last 5 years or so and jumped on the eco friendly building wagon, and like anything there are both good and bad amongst them and the prices vary wildly.

I'll just have to see how it goes and as I said earlier it's an experiment like most things I get up too, but I'm grateful of any advice from others with any relevant experience.

In your opinion, is mixing zinc oxide and titanium white the right way to go and what effect would it have on drying times of cold pressed linseed oil if any ?

My first window paint mix is 200g cold pressed oil, 20g of zinc oxide, 30g of titanium white.

I usually add some extra zinc oxide (as a premixed paint to my base coat. Maybe 20-30% to my selected colour. Then I make a mix of 50% raw linseed oil 35% paint and 15℅ gum turpentine. Depending on how dry the wood is the amount of linseed oil can be decreased. After that I paint with two layers of undiluted paint. Mind, this is following the recommendation from ottosson, the manufacturer I use the most. They make their paint for architectural work from boiled linseed oil. How home made paint from raw linseed oil will work I cannot say! And that is also why this thread is so interesting!

So from my reasoning and from what little knowledge I have, your paint mix is maybe good for mixing with More oil for a first layer. I think that zinc doesn't cover very well so you should maybe increase the proportion of titanium white for the covering layers. Pure titanium white will be very white. I would add some grey or green umber to make a softer and less intense white. This is traditionally how it was done.
 
Last edited:

Jorny

Established Member
Joined
13 Mar 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
8
Location
Sweden
Linseed oil paint is less "durable" in itself and will weather from the surface and gradually disappear - but very easy to touch up and maintain indefinitely.
Alkyd paints are much more durable but don't stick so well and are more difficult to maintain. Eventually it detaches itself, water gets in behind it. Worst case: eventually paint flakes off the flakes still shiny and in good condition, but the wood left behind water logged and rotten.
Modern paints were the kiss of death to the wooden window and a big factor in the change to plastic
I've only ever used Allback linseed paint so it's very interesting to read the posts above!

This is how it is! Linseed oil paint does change over time, bit there are no sudden failiures like with acrylic or alkyd. It ages with grace and can be refreshed with another coat of linseed oil.
 
Last edited:

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,114
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Derbyshire
This is how it is! Linseed oil paint does change over time, bit there are no sudden failiures like with acrylic or alkyd. It ages with grace and can be refreshed with another coat of linseed oil.
It accounts for the myth that wood is not what it used to be. It's the paint that's no good, not the wood, which is as good as ever!
 

Adam W.

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2021
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
2,391
Location
London, Jutland.
Except the trees we use now are harvested at a much earlier age and contain a higher sapwood percentage. Which is why I prefer to select and mill my own.

The pine trees I use are much older, 100 years old or more and the heartwood just under the sapwood layer has a much higher terpene content than commercial softwood.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,114
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Derbyshire
Except the trees we use now are harvested at a much earlier age and contain a higher sapwood percentage. Which is why I prefer to select and mill my own.

The pine trees I use are much older, 100 years old or more and the heartwood just under the sapwood layer has a much higher terpene content than commercial softwood.
They'd always harvest smaller trees for smaller boards. I've removed 160 year old 6x1" boards and replaced with new ditto which appeared to be exactly the same with the centre of the tree dead central and obviously cut from youngish growth. What we don't get is massive virgin forest stuff with very wide boards above 12" which would only be ripped for smaller stuff if necessary. Otherwise I don't think much has changed as far as I can see.
 

johnnyb

Established Member
Joined
13 Nov 2006
Messages
1,845
Reaction score
354
Location
Biddulph staffs
my joy at working red deal after sapele or oak is huge. to the point that to my mind red deal is wood.the other stuff is not quite the same!
 

Adam W.

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2021
Messages
2,299
Reaction score
2,391
Location
London, Jutland.
They'd always harvest smaller trees for smaller boards. I've removed 160 year old 6x1" boards and replaced with new ditto which appeared to be exactly the same with the centre of the tree dead central and obviously cut from youngish growth. What we don't get is massive virgin forest stuff with very wide boards above 12" which would only be ripped for smaller stuff if necessary. Otherwise I don't think much has changed as far as I can see.

The cladding on the Norwegian houses from 1800 which I worked on were small 8" boards cut from large trees and contained no sapwood, pith or juvenile wood, which is why they lasted.

The same timber was imported from Norway and the Baltic states into England in the 18th. century as red and yellow deals, which was used extensively for exterior joinery. Deal denotes imported sawn, not hewn which is a baulk, timber sections and the prefix red, yellow and white describes the species. These generally weren't small boards from small trees.

Modern commercially available softwood is harvested from small trees which is convenient for the harvester, the mill and the forest owner. As the timber is harvested from smaller trees it has a much smaller percentage of heartwood than historic deal sections, and contains a higher percentage of sapwood and juvenile wood which isn't durable.

The extractives, complex hydrocarbons including terpines which occur in increasingly higher concentrations the further away you get from the pith, so wood from an older and larger tree would have more durability than wood from a younger tree of the same species, unless it contained the same quantity of sap or juvenile wood.

So it's not just the paint which is a problem, but also the age of the tree the timber is taken from and the cut which is used for the timber section, which have a bearing on its durability too.
 
Last edited:
Top