making a traditional front door.

[Mark Karacsonyi]

@Johhnyb,

Thanks for the book detail in your original post. Makes for some interesting research.

https://lostartpress.com/products/doormaking-and-window-making

 

[Mark Karacsonyi]

Sorry, it’s johnnyb...

 

[johnnyb]

I'm not entirely convinced about the spiel on these leaflets as they were woodworker magazine pamphlets. woodworker was aimed at keen enthusiasts rather than seasoned pros.
but the book contents are really detailed and superb. but hard reading and need some deciphering. not unlike all books from this era.(think circular work in carpentry and joinery)

 

[johnnyb]

they do need to sell them to Americans though. also it doesn't seem to cover how to achieve the joints grooves etc.

 

[Jetset]

@johnnyb Nice work. Do you have the hardback of this book or the pdf? Or both?

 

[johnnyb]

only the hardback. didn't know it was available in pdf tbh. i am a big supporter of this publishing house. I try and buy one everytime I go to harrogate(off sgian dubh) then usually spend the rest of the year getting to grips with it!

 

[johnnyb]

the only one I'm not keen on that i brought was the anarchists design book. pretty thick and nice but very self consciously hand tool preachy. also the pretext of the book is faulty" make a houseful of simple furniture using a few tools" etc. sorry but I don't buy it....well actually I did.
Ms Bickfords treatise on moulding is a superb book though.

 

[LBCarpentry]

Nicely made door and nice to see you dealing with the knots properly. What made you choose redwood though? Modern day redwood is not really suitable for front doors is it? I may be wrong

not trying to kill the vibes but had to ask

 

[Bm101]

Really interesting thread Johnny. Thanks for taking the time to post. Learning a lot here.
cheers
Chris

 

[johnnyb]

I dont buy in to the hardwood is the only wood for exterior joinery. redwood is redwood. its the same tree as the old boys used. beautiful to work, smell and finish especially with hand planes. its neither to hard and dry or to soft. and is classed as moderately durable anybody who neglects redwood neglects the last 200 years of historic joinery. that being said a thorough treatment with preserver sprayed all over helps to preserve it for decades and decades.
the door this is replacing is made from quebec yellow pine a thoroughly unsuitable wood and it lasted over a hundred years!
also using sapele from the congo is not at all good. its far to hard to use with hand tools and has a switchback grain.
as well as being unsound in its source.
Russian redwood is better than Swedish if you can get it btw
accoya the wonder wood whilst ticking ethical boxes is very soft and brittle. tricksy to glue and paint.
my next front door and frame will be in sapele. almost the same style but bead and flush. with draughtstrips and multipoint locking!
in summary as a woodworker redwood is my wood of choice for this stuff every time. for anyone wondering my least favourite wood is.....oak!

 

[Bm101]

Why not oak if you don't mind another question.

 

[Trevanion]

I dont buy in to the hardwood is the only wood for exterior joinery. redwood is redwood. its the same tree as the old boys used.

I don't know... The Scots Pine that's very common nowadays from merchants as "Joinery Softwood" isn't the greatest externally from experience. I've torn out (another company's) softwood sliding sash windows that were made quite traditionally but had completely rotted cills and outer casings in less than four years, but bearing in mind that was on a house that was about as close to the sea as you could get! Before anyone asks, yes, oil-based paint. That isn't the only example I could bring up, I've seen quite a few fairly freshly made things out of the Scots Pine that's quite rapidly deterioated out in the elements compared with other timbers such as Larch.

Trying to compare what they had 100+ years ago and what we have now is a fool's errand, "Redwood is Redwood" is a nonsensical statement as what they had back then was superior in every aspect to what we've got now. What we've got now commercially is Scots Pine with around four or six growth rings to the inch whilst they had most commonly Pitch Pine with 20+ growth rings to the inch with a natural water repellant characteristic.

 

[johnnyb]

kiln dried it becomes horribly hard(as do many woods beech being one). historic stuff was air dried and probably much easier to work. I've no idea why its suddenly fashionable other than some stuff is cheap(awo) and red hardwoods are unethical. also oak framing is a fashionable thing.

 

[johnnyb]

pitch pine is an extremely durable species (pinus rigida)not redwood. only the poshest houses were made with this stuff. to put redwood out in a seaside location isn't a great idea but much of the longevity is down to how its used and maintained. over the summer I worked on a large edwardian bay most of it was shielded from the weather only the front bit was really gone. People ask joiners to do things cheaply then won't maintain it due to cost...maintenance means having a look every year.
what other wood would be suitable for a large painted front door in a semi sheltered position for little money?

 

[johnnyb]

another job I looked was a door on a rear elevation. oak frame and door. gave my price he said thats dear the oak door on the front was 2/3 of that 10 years ago I looked and the door was trashed. Still sound but weather battered with a broken weather bar rusty screws and hardware. the wood was shredded and black. eventually he had a used painted red hardwood door! the rear hardly got any weather as it was pouring down when i fitted it btw.

 

[Trevanion]

pitch pine is an extremely durable species (pinus rigida)not redwood.

Technically, what you've made your door out of isn't proper "redwood" that's just a common trade name affixed to Scots Pine (Pinus Sylvestris), just as "whitewood" is for Norwegian Spruce. If you want proper actual Redwood I'm afraid you'd have to cut down one of those 70m tall Sequioa trees and break several tree laws in the United States, bring a big chainsaw!

what other wood would be suitable for a large painted front door in a semi sheltered position for little money?

Wood-effect PVC, if you can get away with it

On a more serious note, I don't bother with anything other than Accoya now. Yes, it's far more pricey for the timber but there's so much less material preparation compared with hardwood which is a massive time (and therefore money) saver, it doesn't move at all seasonally which creates peace of mind because you're not going to get a call in six months time saying "my doors binding, sort it out!" and it requires hardly any maintenance which means less paint being used less often which means better for the planet as well as being a sustainable timber.

 

[johnnyb]

thinking about it the first 2 doors I made are over 25 years old and still front and back on my garage! I don't want people to think they will make something from redwood and in four years you'll be ripping it out. ill post pics of them. one is a framed ledge and brace(the t and g is a bit rough!) the other one is 44 inch wide. both made from 2 by 4 par fifths redwood.

 

[johnnyb]

quick tot up the rails and stiles come to £26 and the panels about £24 but I got 2 bags of clean white shavings thats £9 back to me!

 

[johnnyb]

thats 3 bags sorry

 

[Doug71]

Russian redwood is better than Swedish if you can get it btw

I always thought the Swedish stuff was better although I haven't used Russian for years. The Russian stuff always seemed softer?

You sell your shavings for £3 a bag some bloke takes all mine for his chickens and just gets me a box of chocolates from Aldi every Christmas......