jon joseph
Member
Does any one know where I can get a longer saw arbor for my startrite 275ds , so I can use a dado blade thanks
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Longer TS arbour possible?
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sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Short answer no, and probably not.
Long(er) answer: I've rebuilt a couple of these saws over the years, and whilst the spindle isn't the most simple component I'd be confident a decent machinist could make a new one on a lathe (i.e. make one with a longer arbor).
However, I would advise against it, as running the mass of a dado stack on a saw not designed for the job could be seriously dangerous.
There was I believe a "wobble saw" type dado cutter available for the 175 and 275 models, so you can in theory fit some form of dado, but frankly I'd always advise using a router or router table as (whilst still dangerous) they're much less likely to try to kill you.
Long(er) answer: I've rebuilt a couple of these saws over the years, and whilst the spindle isn't the most simple component I'd be confident a decent machinist could make a new one on a lathe (i.e. make one with a longer arbor).
However, I would advise against it, as running the mass of a dado stack on a saw not designed for the job could be seriously dangerous.
There was I believe a "wobble saw" type dado cutter available for the 175 and 275 models, so you can in theory fit some form of dado, but frankly I'd always advise using a router or router table as (whilst still dangerous) they're much less likely to try to kill you.
Slightly off topic sorry, but @sploo why is a dado stack trying to kill you? Not being provocative, they seem to be frowned upon and I don’t understand why. I can see they can’t be used with a riving knife and guard, and they are a much greater mass so if they got off the arbor would create much mayhem. Is this it or is there other things I’m missing?
Dee J
Established Member
Saw table safety is covered by a range of systems - but three key ones are fast stopping of blade rotation, a riving knife to limit jams and kickbacks and a solid blade guard. Dado stacks negate all three, with the added hazard of the braking system more likely to lead to the blade becoming unscrewed do to trying to stop the increased mass. At least router tables and spindle moulders are designed for the job.
jon joseph
Member
thanks for the reply's.
The saw dose not have a electric break and stops in 9 seconds with 11mm stack on it, by its self, i have top guards but i was thinking of getting the screw length long enough to take two nuts, possibly even use lock nut on the out side one , if that makes sense ?
The saw dose not have a electric break and stops in 9 seconds with 11mm stack on it, by its self, i have top guards but i was thinking of getting the screw length long enough to take two nuts, possibly even use lock nut on the out side one , if that makes sense ?
I had considered this with a previous saw I owned but opted to import a DeWalt 746 from the US. My initial concern was that a 5/8" arbour was too small but it's still going after 20 years.! Just be aware that the thread is an ACME type with 'flats' to prevent damage from blade use. A machinist will have to turn ( and thread ) the arbour just under 30 mm or 5/8" depending on which blade system you use. I'd imagine the arbour will also be pushed a little to the right so new table saw insets will be needed.
If the Startrite has a beefy trunion I don't see why it would not work.
If the Startrite has a beefy trunion I don't see why it would not work.
My Electra Bekum saw bench with it's 12" standard blade takes about 2 minutes to stop completely. I guess they just don't trust us here in the UK, no problem in the USA though?
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Something to consider with a longer arbour. If it wasn't designed with it in mind the end or the nut can hit the underside of the table or throat plate preventing you from using the saw at 45º with a normal blade. My first saw had interchangeable arbours and the one for regular blades was short and the dado one was long. One would assume leaving the long one in all the time would make sense but it hit when tilted well before getting to 45º.
Know another thing about a dado blade set. If you do get tanged up in one it rips the **** out of your hand leaving little for a surgeon to try putting back together. Being bigger, kickbacks are more violent too. They can be used safely and are very effective but shouldn't be used in dinky saws or by inexperienced people that don't have a full comprehension of how to use them and their dangers. If you have to ask why they are frowned upon in Europe you shouldn't be playing with them.
Pete
Know another thing about a dado blade set. If you do get tanged up in one it rips the **** out of your hand leaving little for a surgeon to try putting back together. Being bigger, kickbacks are more violent too. They can be used safely and are very effective but shouldn't be used in dinky saws or by inexperienced people that don't have a full comprehension of how to use them and their dangers. If you have to ask why they are frowned upon in Europe you shouldn't be playing with them.
Pete
I know that spare trunions are available in the US for the most common saws used there but not sure about Startrite. Its worth a search however.
Dado blades are mostly used in sheet goods with the blade hidden under the surface so kickback is unlikely. I'd be far more cautious with a spindle moulder .
Dado blades are mostly used in sheet goods with the blade hidden under the surface so kickback is unlikely. I'd be far more cautious with a spindle moulder .
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
As noted by others; mass is a major issue (they're going to take a lot longer to spin down), plus if the saw wasn't designed to start/stop that extra load it might not do it much good.
Material can go for a "walk" on a router, but a dado stack on a tablesaw can really fling a board quite violently if control is lost - so on balance the router is likely to be less dangerous.
I read an article some years ago looking at tablesaw injury rates in the US, and it mentioned that injuries from dado stacks were especially unpleasant (the gist being that a saw blade often leaves something to sew back on, a dado stack doesn't).
I don't think I'd have a problem using a dado stack on a saw with appropriate guarding, but trying to retrofit a longer arbor to an existing saw doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Plus the Startrite 175/275 is relatively small, so despite being a great saw you wouldn't want to be trying to control an 8x4 "full" sheet over it, and that being true, it means working on sheet sizes that are more suited to a router table (or putting an 8x4' sheet on the floor and using a router handheld). A huge saw doing loads of long dado cuts on 8x4' sheets makes more sense, granted.
Great answers, lots to build my knowledge from. The whole full sheet on any small table saw is something I took off the options list a while back, to be honest anything more than a quarter sheet and I avoid my wadkin ags10.
jon joseph
Member
The startright was , with the extra bits designed to take 8 x 4 sheets and if I wanted to put a grove in a 8x4 I would use my cnc, this is only for small work and after 40+ years as a cabinet maker I think I can make sure it’s safe mate
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I'm questioning the process rather than the operator; a dado stack in a tablesaw has much higher potential to cause serious injury than a router table if an accident were to occur.
I can understand the balance of risk vs time if someone were having to make loads of long dado cuts (the dado stack admittedly being faster than the router), but for smaller sheets I'd definitely go for the router table.
With regard to a longer arbor for a Startrite saw; if you want (as close as we're going to get to) the gospel truth, then drop Lee at Alt Saws and Spares an email (http://www.sharkbandsawblades.co.uk/contact_us.html); he used to work for them and has given me loads of help regarding parts and knowledge of the history.
Dangermouse 2nd
Established Member
Well for me its a bit of a non issue, as all my stuff is 1950's and before. Most of my kit is Wadkin, and made to take dado stacks. I'd not put one on a saw that wasn't designed to take it in the first place. If you seriously want to go that route, get a saw, such as a Wadkin thats built like a brick **** house and made for the job.
ossieosborne
Established Member
I thought owning a table saw which could accept a dado set was great at first but that soon wore off. A router and a decent jig versus swapping out blades, setting the width and height, making numerous test cuts and so on... the dado set just gathers dust now.
I would have thought a router built into the table saw "table" would give you all the benefits of a dado stack with all the benefits router as well. This is my plan when I am able to implement it.
Not a motor expert by any means but wouldn't you have to account for the extra pressure from pushing down throwing the balance out and extra resistance between the stator and rotor by making it do something it wasn't designed to do?
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
In this case the motor and arbor are not integral. The saw arbor is a shaft with its own bearings and is driven by a separate motor. It isn't part of the motor like the small job site saws.
Pete
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
On a TS the dado cutter would be vertical with the workpiece above - so a slight misstep and it could pick it up and launch it. You can get the same prob if deep cutting (i.e. not right through) with a TS saw blade
The same cutter on a spindle would be horizontal and a misstep is likely just to push it away sideways relatively safely (though worse can happen!).
Hence a spindle moulder is fundamentally safer than a dado cutter on a TS, even more so as guarding, power feed etc much easier to install on a spindle moulder.
The same cutter on a spindle would be horizontal and a misstep is likely just to push it away sideways relatively safely (though worse can happen!).
Hence a spindle moulder is fundamentally safer than a dado cutter on a TS, even more so as guarding, power feed etc much easier to install on a spindle moulder.
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