Lie Nielsen A2 Steel.

[Richard T]

Another reminder that we are being observed from Mt. Olympus 8-[

Mt Olympus is in Maine now? Are the Greeks selling everything?

*waves howdy to Big Brother*

:lol: Seems to be variously Maine, Canada and Scotland. 8-[

 

[Benchwayze]

I just ordered a low angle smoother from Axy.
I'll keep posted! 8)

 

[mtr1]

Jammy f##@++........

 

[Benchwayze]

Jammy f##@++........

I gave up the beer for a few months! :wink:

 

[GazPal]

It's always possible someone from Axminster (Who posts on here) contacted LN and referred them to this thread, but - regardless - kudos to LN for sorting the situation out so smoothly.

 

[mtr1]

Well predictively enough according to Axminster I have damaged the iron by using a bench grinder to re-grind the bevel. I did point out that all my other irons over the last 20yrs have been fine :roll: I was a bit peeved to be honest and was probably a bit short with the guy.

 

[No skills]

Take heart, it must of cost them a fortune to send it to ******* NASA to find that out and be 100% sure of it. Are LN still getting you a new iron?

 

[CHJ]

If we are talking the same standard for the A2 I think you would have to be pretty brutal with any grinding to wreck the temper:,

A2 Tool Steel

 

[Jake]

Well thankfully at least the manufacturer stands up to its reputation for good service.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Well predictively enough according to Axminster I have damaged the iron by using a bench grinder to re-grind the bevel. I did point out that all my other irons over the last 20yrs have been fine :roll: I was a bit peeved to be honest and was probably a bit short with the guy.

Have Axminster offered any evidence to support their assertion? Have they, for example, carried out hardness tests on the affected area of the iron?

Or are they just making a blind guess?

 

[mtr1]

No evidence, the guy asked what I had used to re-grind the bevel, and I told him a bench grinder. He then told me that was the problem then, I must of heated the iron and ruined the hardness. I told him that the stone I used was a soft white, on a slow bench grinder, he told me that makes no difference. I then felt the need to tell him my occuption and how long I had been doing it, and that I hadn't had a problem with my other A2 irons/chisels or for that matter any of my other edge tools.
He then went on to say that the primery bevel was a bit strange at 25 degrees, I didn't bother to tell him that it was in fact about 34 degrees, as I was starting to feel a little bit cheesed off. I think I might of said it wasnt anything I had done, and have had the iron for a while and have tried to make it work, I thought it was a tempering fault at source as I had never been able to get a lasting edge on it. Do others not re-grind bevels on a bench grinder? I would compare this irons edge to a broken digestive biscut after planing oak for 5 mins. As jake has stated, thankfully the maufacturer doesn't think along the same lines.

 

[GazPal]

25 deg is a bog standard standard primary bevel for irons anyway and even if slightly low for A2's edge retention the angle's normally increased via the secondary bevel if heading the two bevel route. In terms of grinding, does this "expert" chappy expect folk to grind primaries using stones and not grinding equipment?

A hardness test should be carried out on the problem blade regardless and to adequately identify whether softening was caused via production (Heat treatment/steel batch) flaws or re-grinding.

 

[Modernist]

All of the above just goes to illustrate, if it were needed, that these people are retailers first, second and last and it is wrong to accord them any status other than good or bad and place your orders accordingly.

 

[CHJ]

As a matter of interest, any members got access to Brinell or Rockwell testing facilities ?

Having extensive heat treatment facilities etc. we did dozens of such checks every day, it was the first stop in diagnosing components coming in for rework to asses in use damage due to heat and part of the QA before leaving the shop after machining and/or heat treatment.

 

[Modernist]

As a matter of interest, any members got access to Brinell or Rockwell testing facilities ?

Having extensive heat treatment facilities etc. we did dozens of such checks every day, it was the first stop in diagnosing components coming in for rework to asses in use damage due to heat and part of the QA before leaving the shop after machining and/or heat treatment.

I doubt if many have or, Ax either. If it was not blue then I can't see that any damage could have been caused.

 

[dickm]

Is there a University/college anywhere near the OP that has an engineering or materials science department? They would be almost certain to have hardness testers, and examining the offending iron might be a useful part of an undergraduate project.
Or, longer shot, if there are any ex-students of the Open University Materials Science course from the 1970s around the forum, there was a metallurgical microscope and hardness testing equipment supplied to them as part of the Home Experiment Kit .

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If the iron is developing chips at the cutting edge in service, it suggests that it is too brittle - in other words, too hard, not tempered enough. If the iron had been overheated by grinding, that would 'over-temper' it and soften it (I think - I'm not totally sure of the metallurgical behaviour of A2 under different heat treatments). That wouldn't lead to chipping, more likely would be a more rapid dulling of the edge than usual. Apart from that, mtr1 would have noticed bluing of the cutting edge at grinding, and thought "Silly me, have to grind past that, now" - he's been working wood long enough to know that well enough.

I think the iron is too hard, not too soft.

I'm speculating now, but maybe LN had a batch of irons heat-treated in such a way that the tempering wasn't spot-on for some reason - operator carelessness, miscalibration of temperature instrumentation on the tempering furnace, whatever. LN may have sussed that, and being a reputable firm, replace any rogue irons that come to light (credit to LN for taking that approach).

 

[Racers]

Hi, Mark

I am sure I could get your blade tested at work.

Just let me know.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

People seem to have been complaining about A2 steel for a long time now. Surely it's pretty obvious that it's not suitable for planes and chisels using normal honing angles (25-30º) and that's all there is to it?
Just don't buy it to start with, but if you have then get the supplier to exchange it, unless you only use steeper angles.
I've got A2 on a LV la smoother and it seems fine to me but it's never honed much below 35ºish and sometimes a lot steeper. Surprisingly soft and easy to hone, but does keep an edge; seems unlikely - you wouldn't think it'd do both.

 

[David C]

I clearly remember discussing the merits of A2 with both Karl Holtey and Tom L-N before they introduced it to their range.

At this time I attempted some comparitive research into the performance of several different steels. The experiment was extremely tedious, difficult and ultimately unsatisfactory ! How does one decide when an edge is so bad that it needs resharpening? This point was extremely subjective and therefore unreliable. However I was quite clear that an A2 blade was lasting several times longer than a Stanley alloy or an 01 blade in an abrasive timber. This was Doussie or Afzelia which contains quantities of mineral deposit.
Much cleverer research has been done by Brent Beach and Steve Elliot.

The blade set up was; grind 23 degrees, coarse stone 33 degrees and polishing stone 35 degrees, in a regular bevel down plane. (The 35 degree polishing angle reduces the 15 degree clearance angle by 5 degrees).

It seems clear to me that the people who do not get on with A2 are either; using innapropriate honing angles, or perhaps struggling with traditional oil stones. Diamond, ceramic and waterstones seem to do a good job.

Beast wishes,
David Charlesworth