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Lie Neilsen butt mortise plane.

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Joiner Jim

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I do quite a bit of hinge work and other occasional relief cutting and this might be a convenient gem over using a router as some places you just cannot make that kind of mess and although chisel chopping works it is slow. Has anyone out there had good bad or indifferent use of this plane?
Cheers,
Jim.
 

thetyreman

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have you considered using a router plane for the final surface? not sure how this tool replaces a chisel then router plane, I'm sure it will be well made though.
 

Jacob

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I've always chopped out hinges with a chisel. Can't imagine how a router or even a "butt mortise plane" could possibly make it any easier or quicker.
 

D_W

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This was the sentiment on the American forum from the more avid furniture makers.
 

deema

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Get a Stanley no95 gauge from an auction site. You will be able to cut hinge rebates with a chisel before you’ve got the buy plane out of the drawer! Remember, it’s only the front edge that defines how the hinge works.
 

Inspector

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I have a similar plane to the LN, made by some other company. I bought it from Lee Valley many years ago but they don't sell it anymore. It works well enough for the final levelling cuts after most of the waste is removed with a chisel. Because the blade has to be loosened, advanced down by pushing or tapping with a mallet then retightened, it is slow to cut from scratch and you'll need to nibble on each hinge location as you go if you are only using the plane. If I were to buy one now I'd get the new Veritas one Lee Valley sells. It has the the easy adjuster mechanism of their router plane along with the narrowness that makes the hinge mortice plane work so well on a door jamb.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/to ... tise-plane

Pete
 

Tony Zaffuto

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SWMBO looks through my shop while looking at an LN or LV catalog, for present ideas. This has gone on since around 2000. The result is I have many new tools, plus my "finds". Most new tools are used, some not so much.

I have a LN mortise plane. This morning, I had to cut two hinge pockets. In the time it would have taken me to get the mortise plane out, adjust the depth, etc., I had both chiseled out (didn't even get my butt gauge out-just knifed the outline).

I suppose a house carpenter, tasked with the job of hanging a house full of doors, could make better time using the gauge and plane, plus the length and narrow sole of the plane bridges the layout nicely. However, a hobbyist does not need the plane. Just find a vintage butt gauge, use a chisel and maybe your router plane.
 

Jacob

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Tony Zaffuto":2pizr4t0 said:
....a hobbyist does not need the plane.
Nor does a house carpenter
Just find a vintage butt gauge, use a chisel and maybe your router plane.
Doesn't need a butt gauge either (never heard if them t.b.h.) - two marking gauges does the job at a fraction of the price, probably more easily. Nor a router plane - just a few chisels, 2 marking gauge, sliding combi square
 

AndyT

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I'm no house carpenter, and although I can use a gauge to fit hinges to a door, I've never managed to use an ordinary marking gauge when fitting hinges onto the frame. Ideally you'd mark the mortices relative to the inside of the door stop, but an ordinary gauge won't do this. You can't get the pin close enough for the width and the architrave is in the way for the depth.

As a rank amateur, I've knifed around the hinge itself.

What should I do instead?
 

Jacob

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AndyT":1m506ylw said:
I'm no house carpenter, and although I can use a gauge to fit hinges to a door, I've never managed to use an ordinary marking gauge when fitting hinges onto the frame. Ideally you'd mark the mortices relative to the inside of the door stop, but an ordinary gauge won't do this. You can't get the pin close enough for the width and the architrave is in the way for the depth.

As a rank amateur, I've knifed around the hinge itself.

What should I do instead?
What I used to do was fit the hinge to the door with gauges etc. then measure the edge of hinge to closing side of door, add 2mm for clearance and mark that in the rebate with the scribing pin from the sliding bevel. Then join the pin marks - mark the line with the pin and the rule.
You can trim the end off a wooden gauge to get it a bit closer for the hinge thickness, or bodge up a gauge with a screw in a bit of wood. File the head of the screw flatter to make a sharp edge.
Then chisel it all out - a vertically sided v groove all round then take out the middle with a couple of swipes and paring it down a touch if necessary.
PS I'd sometimes mark around the hinge itself with a scribe pin or a pencil but not a knife. Knives are for cutting a mark already made, not for making a mark itself - with the rare exception sometimes encountered where one face of an old timber has knife marks and the other three pencilled. I guess the foreman made the knife marks to be indelible and correct and the bench hand followed them with the pencil.
But there's all sorts of variations!
 

deema

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A Stanley 95 or butt gauge, is in essence a marker with two sliders and the pins at the very end of the arms. It allows you to set the gauge directly off the hinge for both rebate depth and distance in from the edge. You can then scribe both without changing the settings. It is very short, and as such will fit into the rebate. Marking the sides of the hing is best done off the hinge itself. They can normally be found for a few pounds as most people don’t know what they are for or how useful they are.
 

thetyreman

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I like the poor mans beading tool by paul sellers, gets into difficult spaces and have used it a few times as a marking gauge where a normal one can't fit.
 

G S Haydon

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Andy, as I like to have a few gauges, I just cut the wood off the end of of the gauge so there is not much wood between the pin and the end of the stem. It looks weak but as I don't add a great deal of pressure I've not had it break in over 20 years of use and I only use it on hinge work.

On the Stanley Butt Gauge. I don't own one but worked with a chap that did. He used it when hanging new doors on new builds. For him it was fast, effective and neat. He was old school and would work quickly with his gauge and chisel to get a door hung in very short order.

I'm sure there might be someone who uses the plane but it's not something I can see being of much worth to me.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I re drilled the hole for the pin slightly offset so the end of the pin was even further out, then flattening the outside of the pin so it's vertical.
 

Dovetaildave

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I looked at the video (no sound as moving home right now) .....and I'm very impressed to say the least, in fact I'm considering going back onsite just so I can have one.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/to ... tise-plane

He did two housings in only 15 seconds, the queue for the Orthopaedic Specialist would take longer, wouldn't it? :ho2

Happy New Year :deer
 

Joiner Jim

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Thanks one and all.
It is house doors I mainly hang generally using a pair of Veritas wheel marking gauges and chiselling out before the architraves or stops are fitted. I have used a router and jig when there is no need to limit the mess but I much prefer hand tooling.
I will have a look for an old butt gauge which I have not come across before and look at the Lee Valley offering.
Cheers,
Jim.
 

Jacob

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Butt gauges seem to be an American thing, judging by offerings on Ebay. Also rare, going by the prices.
I guess they are just another not very useful gadget, which is basically what LN and LV are all about; digging unpopular obsolete designs out of the back catalogue.
 

Tony Zaffuto

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Not rare at all here in the states! I served a 4 year apprenticeship in the mid 70s, and a butt gage was one of the tools we were required to purchase, and used it for many doors UNTIL electric routers and mortising templates came on the scene (mid 80s).

The gages were dirt cheap, relegated to the bottom of your tool box, since not really used much anymore, but since most of us were "frugal", we didn't toss them. They are easily found at fleamarkets, and are priced a bit dearly, because they look "complicated" to those not familiar with them.

I left the trade in 1989, and in the years since, have hired the contractor I used to work for, to do additions to my manufacturing plant. During those times, I've looked through the tool boxes of carpenters on the job. I was required to have a (very specific) Stanley 42X sawset, but no saw files! Today's carpenters carry a disposable hardpoint saw. I had to have a standard angle block plane and smoothing plane, but no jack or jointer. Today's carpenters "might" have a block plane, but they all had chisels, and a rather coarse carborundum stone.

The quality of their work, in our offices, was excellent, though. Their ages were 30s and early 40s, and I introduced a couple to sharpening-chisels, and plane blades (if they had a plane). I also suggested picking up a vintage saw or two, but interest was low, as the dispose-a-saws, were dirt cheap. I did loan them my Lion miter trimmer, which was used.

Back to the butt gage, they were very common here and used, until made obsolete by routers. Would I use one today? If I had one or two doors to hang, just a maybe!
 

Pete Maddex

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I am with jacod with this one I mark the hinge out with my thumb nail and gnaw the wood away with my teeth, these modern tool aren't worth buying....

Pete
 
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