Ledged brace frame doors

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SamG340

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Hi all I'm building some doors for my garage ledge braced & framed. I'm planning butt jointing/doweling all the framework together, I know a lot people mortise and tenon them but it's only a garage door it doesn't need to be anything special. Will dowels and glue be strong enough & do the job ?

Thanks all
 

recipio

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Never built one so I'm guessing you will just about get away with it using three 12 x 60 dowels in each joint. Use proper beechwood or oak dowels - not the dowelling rods which are poor quality ' Far Eastern' wood. A doweling jig would help and you will need sash clamps to get the joints together. If you want an alternative to chopping out mortices have a look at the ' Beadlock' system marketed by www.rockler.com which is a poor man's answer to the Festool Domino.
 

Spectric

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have a look at the ' Beadlock' system marketed by www.rockler.com which is a poor man's answer to the Festool Domino.
I would compare the beadlock to the Dowelmax, it's just a shame the beadlock is not made to the same very high standards otherwise it would be a fantastic tool. A very nice feature is that they sell a router bit so you can make you own beadlocks.

but it's only a garage door it doesn't need to be anything special.
But will you still be saying that when they sag and become a pita to open and close? You could use dowels but would need a pattern of them to give strength and that would need a decent jig.


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SamG340

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But will you still be saying that when they sag and become a pita to open and close? You could use dowels but would need a pattern of them to give strength and that would need a decent jig.

No lol I'd be annoyed .

Would half lap joints at the top be strong enough ? Then the middle and bottom ledge doweled in ?
 

recipio

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I would compare the beadlock to the Dowelmax, it's just a shame the beadlock is not made to the same very high standards otherwise it would be a fantastic tool. A very nice feature is that they sell a router bit so you can make you own beadlocks.
.

They used to make an aluminium version but the bean counters have now reverted to plastic. It's actually a great way to make floating tenons as you just drill out the mortise and yes, you can use a router bit to make the tenons out of oak or any other strong hardwood.
 

johnnyb

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I've no idea about what tools you have but a m and t is well worth the effort. the mortice is the tricky bit in my opinion(easy with a morticer though) that and knowing what your doing?ie the bottom and mid rails are bare faced.
 

Doug71

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I knew a chap who used a really simple method to make basic doors and gates. He made all the the framework square and cut butt joints on everything then he would clamp a joint so the rail and stile were exactly in line and drill right through the stile and in to the end of the rail with something like an 18mm bit and then knock a matching sized dowel right through the lot. He made windows the same way, bit rough in my opinion but it seemed to do what he needed.
 

SamG340

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I knew a chap who used a really simple method to make basic doors and gates. He made all the the framework square and cut butt joints on everything then he would clamp a joint so the rail and stile were exactly in line and drill right through the stile and in to the end of the rail with something like an 18mm bit and then knock a matching sized dowel right through the lot. He made windows the same way, bit rough in my opinion but it seemed to do what he needed.
Not a bad idea at all
 

SamG340

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FLBDoorExampleInside.jpg
FLBDoorExampleOutside.jpg


This is roughly what I'm aiming for. I've got 4x2 for the top ledge and side frames, 4x1 for the other two ledges & the braces , and 19mm tounge and groove for the cladding.

I'm an novice woodworker at best :D so trying to keep it simple as I can!
 

johnnyb

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the large timber screws are pretty solid and don't rust. then what's needed is truly flat and square timber that's cut at 90 both ways!
 

johnnyb

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it's a nice job to do and there's many ways to joint it up but having attempted these things with basic tools sometimes it's hard to get satisfaction as the woods twisted not square etc etc.. I reckon hand sort the wood for straight without twist. then use 150 or 200 mm timber screws in the corners. then run a bearing guided 1/2 inch rebate around then screw the bare faced mid rail in. Good luck with it.cutting 6 rails the same length is then the bug bear.
.
 

SamG340

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it's a nice job to do and there's many ways to joint it up but having attempted these things with basic tools sometimes it's hard to get satisfaction as the woods twisted not square etc etc.. I reckon hand sort the wood for straight without twist. then use 150 or 200 mm timber screws in the corners. then run a bearing guided 1/2 inch rebate around then screw the bare faced mid rail in. Good luck with it.cutting 6 rails the same length is then the bug bear.
.

Thanks for your help Johnny . I picked through the stock at Wickes was there half an hour getting the straight ones . I've cut the verticals on my cheap carp miter saw with a LOT of fiddling managed to them within 0.5mm :D

Rebate to fix the tounge and groove to the frame work right ? Like this pic

LBOutsideFace.png
 

Just4Fun

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Why not a bridal joint, that should not be hard to make,
I find M&T easier to make, but that may just be me. At least with an M&T most inaccuracies are hidden away inside the joint so as long as you get the shoulders right the joint looks good. So I would use M&T joints, possibly fox tenons or draw bored. Doesn't really take long and a very string joint.
 

KT -andy

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I did our gates 10 year ago , 1/2 lapped top middle and bottom then glued and screwed everything . Big screws for the braces .Then 18mm t&g . Creosoted twice a year , they look the same as when I made them ! -
 

SamG340

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I did our gates 10 year ago , 1/2 lapped top middle and bottom then glued and screwed everything . Big screws for the braces .Then 18mm t&g . Creosoted twice a year , they look the same as when I made them ! -

Good to hear , any pics if I'm not being too nosy ?
 
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