Leaking back door

[John Brown]

Our back door opens outwards, and is pretty much flush with the frame, which is pretty much flush with the brickwork. When it rains(as it is doing now) water is getting into the gap between the top of the door and the frame, either by capillary action, the Coanda effect, or just plain old gravity and bad luck. It strikes me that there should be some sort of cap on the top of the door frame to deflect this water, and probably some complementary device on the bottom of the door. I've found pictures of so-called weather bars at the bottom of doors, but I don't seem to be able to find any info relating to the top. Any advice welcome.

John

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Can't help, but I now know what the Coanda effect is. Thanks.

 

[Beau]

The door being flush with outer wall does not help matters. Is there space to add a weather bar at the top of the frame?

 

[John Brown]

I'd say there's about 2" of door frame that I can fix to. Would the same sort of profile work?

 

[RobinBHM]

You need a head drip:

http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/head-drip ... -30mm.html

Face fix it about 5mm above the door, full width of the brickwork.

 

[blackrodd]

The best bet would obviously be to change the frame to inwards opening, for best results.
Make, and fit a storm porch, to keep the weather off.
A sealing strip fixed for the door to shut on, as the usual storm frame.
Or, Could you make Something simple, like a 2"x 1" bevelled at 45 degrees each side, as in a piece of ceiling cove, and groove the edges, just beveled.
One edge will be the drip, and the other mastic sealed part sitting on the door frame head.
Do take the sharp edge off, as it will hurt!
Regards Rodders

 

[John Brown]

You need a head drip:

http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/head-drip ... -30mm.html

Face fix it about 5mm above the door, full width of the brickwork.

I knew there must be a name for it..

Do you mean 5mm above the wooden frame/casing or 5mm above the door?

 

[Ali]

Any chance of a photo please John?

 

[John Brown]

This from Alsfords is closer to me>
http://www.alsfordtimber.com/timber/pre ... 38mtd.html

 

[John Brown]

Any chance of a photo please John?

Not until it stops raining...

 

[Jacob]

Yep -drip. Exactly where depends on the head details and the masonry above.

 

[Lons]

Hi John any chance of posting a pic.
You can do as suggested but they may be another possibility, and you won't like it as it means moving the door but first a couple of questions.

1) What construction is the wall e.g. block inner/cavity/brick outer? Or maybe solid wall or rendered?
2) Is it a one piece lintel over or 2 separates?
3) Is the door and frame original or has it been replaced at some stage?
Is there a mastic seal along the top of door frame?

The reason for asking is that if a cavity wall with one piece "combined" galvanised lintel, the lintel is designed so that the central section which sits inside the cavity wall slopes from back to front and ends with d drip strip. the reason for this is that the outer leaf will never be fully waterproof so the lintel will collect any ingress of water and shed it to the front and out. There are commonly weep holes in a couple of the mortar joints to facilitate this. A door frame should never be fitted flush to the brickwork anyway but it is essential that the door frame is fitted behind this drip strip otherwise water will inevitably track back over the top of the frame. Sealant on top of the frame in this instance makes matters even worse.
separate lintels are basically the same as they need a cavity tray over to provide the same protection whilst solid walls have additional issues.

I'm a builder and have seen this on many occasions, even had it done to me on a patio door on a brand new house 30 years ago and until I drew a sketch the idiots couldn't see what the problem was (hammer)

I can knock up a rough sketch if you need it.

cheers
Bob

edit: here's a typical modern lintel which shows the drip. You can seal this but only if weep holes are incorporated.

 

[John Brown]

I'll try and get some pictures when it stops raining.

In the meantime:
One side of the wall is original(1894, so no cavity) the other side is a cavity wall.
Don't understand the question about the lintel - there's a concrete lintel above the door frame, that's all I know.
Neither the door nor the frame are original.
There does not seem to be a mastic seal between the lintel and the door frame.

I don't think it's been particularly well executed, but we've been here 6 or 7 years, and I've no desire to move the doorframe. I recently had to take the door down to replace a rotten plywood bottom panel, and I think that filling and repainting the top edge may have made this problem more evident, as, judging by the previous state of thing, most of the Surrey rainfall had been absorbed into the top rail.

 

[Lons]

Hi John
Forgot to ask if there is brickwork above the lintel.

Don't understand the question about the lintel - there's a concrete lintel above the door frame, that's all I know.

Anyway, haven't had time to do a drawing, would be better after posting a pic anyway but in the meantime have downloaded a few simple images which might help you understand;

The 2 showing a conservatory illustrate how water exits out from a combined lintel but the principle is exactly the same for cavity tray installation. Your concrete lintel may or may not be structural as there are many instances of concrete being installed on top of a metal lintel for effect to comply with the architectural features of a building in which case as you will note from the drawings the frame must be installed back from and not flush with the outer face of the wall. If it is however a structural lintel then it should have a cavity tray ABOVE that which is where any water should exit.

On a combined lintel you will note that a mastic seal is between door / window frame and underside of lintel NOT top of lintel and wall!

 

[John Brown]

Hi Bob,

With any luck I'll get some pics tomorrow, but I don't think this door is going to conform to any idea you might have about proper building practices/regulations! I think someone has simply inserted a concrete lintel and added a door housing below.

John

 

[John Brown]

Please see attached photos. I am fairly certain the whole job is a bad DIY effort, but I hope I can do something not too drastic to ameliorate the situation. This door faces east, so most of the time it doesn't get as much rain as the other side of the house, but I think yesterday's wind was from the east.

John

 

[HOJ]

Definitely fit a drip head, this will throw the water running down the wall above door, away and clear of the face of the door.

Presumably the water is getting into the house, I would check the weather seals on the frame, outward opening door frames need to have the seals set differently to inward openers.
A lot of people use the wrong frame designs for this situation, i.e an inward opening frame reversed.

If its the Coanda effect ? or capillary action and air pressure causing the ingress, you could machine
a groove in the door edge to relieve that effect, which I do on my flush casement windows, and create a path for the water to run down on the wet side of the weather seals and stay on the outside, provided the seals are the correct ones and in the right place.

 

[John Brown]

There are no weather seals. Like I say, this is a badly executed job on a Victorian house. I could probably fit some sort of weather seal, but I'd rather keep the water away from the door, as I've just spent some time chopping out rot and filling with two-part filler. Should I fit the drip head to the wood of the door frame, or to the lintel above it? And should I try to seal the gap between the lintel and the frame with something? Not that I thing anything's getting in that way.

 

[John Brown]

Alsfords sell both of these:
Do you think I could use either of these both over the door and at the bottom, or would I be better off with a length of each?

 

[HOJ]

If there is room on the frame above the door (45mm +) use the door drip, has a greater projection at 70mm, could do with one on the bottom of the door as a rule.

Are there no grooves in the frame rebate? to enable weather seals to be installed.