Lathes shorting electricity

[Penllysbach]

I have a 'new' (to me) lathe, all set up and works when switched on. Next time I switched it on it tripped all the power. Changed the fuse, tripped again. Took it off extension lead, tripped again.
I tried my Clarke lathe, and it too tripped the all the power. Changed the fuse, same. Tried it directly into the plug, same. I reset the lather, the same.
I am really rather perplexed. While I confess to knowing nothing about electricity I do not understand why both lathes, from different sockets are tripping the power. All other power tools are working fine.
Any thoughts/suggestions would be great.
Thank you

 

[Trevanion]

Earth leak perhaps?

 

[Penllysbach]

Ohhh, what does that mean??? ... and on both. The small lathe was fine a few days ago ...

 

[Trevanion]

I'm nowhere near qualified enough to even start explaining it!

Take this with a pinch of salt because as I've said above, I've only got a very simple understanding of the dark arts. I think, in simple terms, it means possibly that the live electricity is flowing where it really shouldn't be and is working its way back through the earth to the board, causing the tripping to occur. It's usually a loose connection somewhere in the line that causes it.

Probably best to get a qualified electrician in to find the problem.

 

[Penllysbach]

Thank you.
I've done a bit on online research and am wondering if the issue is with the 'new' lathe ... it is a Record CL2 36 x 18 and it has some years under its belt .... could this have the loose connection?????? The power now keeps tripping!!!
Maybe time to call an electrician??

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I had a problem with the hot water emersion heater - it tripped every time I turned it on. The problem was a eventually found, and was nothing to do with the emersion heater at all - water had managed to get in to a socket nowhere near the water heater. Your lathes are drawing a big enough current to show up the problem, but it could be anywhere.

The power now keeps tripping!!!

If the lathe isn't plugged in and you have the same problem, it isn't the lathe.

 

[Trevanion]

I had a problem with the hot water emersion heater - it tripped every time I turned it on. The problem was a eventually found, and was nothing to do with the emersion heater at all - water had managed to get in to a socket nowhere near the water heater. Your lathes are drawing a big enough current to show up the problem, but it could be anywhere.

My knowledge of earth leakage comes from me being electrocuted in the shower because we were getting ~60 volts coming back through the earth and the water pipes are bonded and earthed. Funny thing was the earth problem had absolutely nothing to do with our system but the neighbour's about 300 yards down the road who had a shonky electrician in to do some work and they hadn't done a proper job of it and when it came to rain had water got into whatever electrical work had been done and sent electricity down the earth, through the shared transformer (Three houses on a single transformer), into my house, through my water pipes, through my shower handle into me.

Pretty neat eh?

 

[Dee J]

There is now a fault in you electrical system. Whether that was due to to new lathe is open to conjecture. Maybe just coincidence. Electrician time.

 

[porker]

When you say it tripped the fuse, what exactly tripped? There are two types of fault that will cut the power, overcurrent and earth leakage as described above. From the symptoms I would assume your issue is earth leakage. The actual way this works is that if the current flowing in and out of the circuit are inbalanced then some current is 'escaping' either down the earth (or CPC) cable or some other path, like damp to earth or through a person touching a live conductor for example and the ELCB with trip. (If the MCB trips this is overcurrent and if you have MCBOs it could be either).

One issue that is quite common is that if the leakage current is close to the limit of the ELCB (they usually trip in the low 20mA range for a standard 30mA ELCB) then something with a small amount of leakage (like something with a motor, fridge, immersion) is enough to take it over the edge. This can sometimes make it very confusing as to what is causing the issue as a number of appliances can cause the trip but are not actually the primary cause. Finding the cause can be tricky without the right test equipment ,but there are things you can do to find the fault by a process of elimination but how practical this is depends on your setup.

 

[Penllysbach]

Thank you all ... most def electrician time! Will let you know how it all goes ...

 

[Hutzul]

I had a problem last year with my kitchen circuit, it kept tripping the RCD (Residual Circuit Device). I unplugged everything and it still would not reset. The electrician traced it to a faulty cable on the circuit that was arcing/shorting, thus tripping the RCD.
This was the only wiring not done by myself, it was done by 'kitchen fitters'. Now I always get a tradesman I can trust.
I look forward to seeing what the answer is Penllysbach, I have 2 lathes.

 

[Penllysbach]

So, have disconnected the earth on my Clarke lathe, runs fine without it. As soon as I reconnect it trips everything. Help

 

[Paul Narramore]

No, you don't want help. You're going to call out an electrician, aren't you? Electricity really isn't for amateurs.

 

[Penllysbach]

Already done, but am wondering if there is now something wrong with my Clarke lathe

 

[Dee J]

All electrical kit leaks a small amount to earth. High tech stuff with filters, or machines with suppressors more than most. If the sum of all your equipment leakage plus the installed wiring leakage exceeds trip level then the system will trip. Just because the last thing you plug in pushes it over the edge doesn't mean that's the culprit. An electrician with the right test gear can diagnose really easily, and avoids hazardous tricks like disconnecting earths.

 

[tdsoldgit]

If disconnecting the earth on your lathe removes the fault, you have definately got a faulty lathe. It is causing current to flow to earth but that should return via the neutral lead.
I would check the lead (visually and run your hand along it - your hand is often better than your eyes for finding iffy leads - and look inside the lathe, where the lead goes into it and see if you have any signs of shorting; but also, and most likely, if there are any supression components - usually capacitors - but sometime capacitors with series resistors - which are being used to stop interference in radios etc when the motor is spinning. These are sometimes in a Y configuration across line, neutral and earth (I'm assuming its single phase). The one from line to earth may need replacing. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THESE ARE REPLACED FOR THE RIGHT TYPE, class X or class Y . They are sometimes cylindrical, sometime rectangular and are usually marked n uF where n is a number like 0.1 and they must be of the same voltage (or higher) than what was there originally and AC rated (not DC). Best to get manufacturers spares, because there may not be much room for them.
Most sparkies won't be into this kind of repair, but should be able to diagnose the fault with a PAT tester or and insulation meter.
As others have said, dont mess with electricity. And make sure your lathe is earthed. Properly!

 

[robe_uk]

Just curious, you said that your original lathe starting tripping the power also, was your 'new' lathe plugged into the wall at the same time?

 

[Doug71]

Not long ago I had a real PITA tenant, they kicked off big style because their electricity supply started tripping, weren't going to pay rent till it was sorted etc. Took my sparky 5 mins to track it down to their dodgy washing machine, did make me smile

 

[Penllysbach]

Just curious, you said that your original lathe starting tripping the power also, was your 'new' lathe plugged into the wall at the same time?

No, 'new' lathe wasn't plugged in

 

[Speaker]

I have a 'new' (to me) lathe, all set up and works when switched on. Next time I switched it on it tripped all the power. Changed the fuse, tripped again. Took it off extension lead, tripped again.
I tried my Clarke lathe, and it too tripped the all the power. Changed the fuse, same. Tried it directly into the plug, same. I reset the lather, the same.
I am really rather perplexed. While I confess to knowing nothing about electricity I do not understand why both lathes, from different sockets are tripping the power. All other power tools are working fine.
Any thoughts/suggestions would be great.
Thank you

Hi, when you say "tripped the fuse" do you mean it tripped the circuit breaker on your fuse board?

If yes, what is the power requirement of your lathe - could it be that the start up current is exceeding the rating of the fuse? In which case you would need to change the circuit breaker to one that can handle the initial current surge. I think (you would need to confirm with an electrician) they are known as "type B".