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gwaithcoed

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o_OWOW Dabop As a retired electrical engineer I cannot believe any company would manufacture such a lethal bit of kit. What else do they make Electric chairs ?????? o_O
I know I'm safe with my set up. It all end up to one twin socket fed from the generator to which I can plug in my tele. etc. Nothing connected to the incoming house supply

Alan
 

MikeK

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This one is sold in the US- 'drier to generator' (No earth!!!- thats neutral, 120 line 1 and 120v line 2...)
View attachment 124403

The L6-20P and 10-50P plugs and receptacles have an earth terminal and two 120V line terminals. There is no neutral terminal because it's not needed.
 

Dabop

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Actually I checked and it is a combination neutral/earth (it has to be, as it definitely 'powers up' the 120v circuits according to people online- and that can only happen if it is providing a neutral link to the generator...)
Otherwise if it was only providing L1 and L2, then anything 120v would only be connected to a live line, and no return path (unless it found a random one back through other appliances/devices to the L2 from L1- which would be ..... unwise....
 

MikeK

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Actually I checked and it is a combination neutral/earth (it has to be, as it definitely 'powers up' the 120v circuits according to people online- and that can only happen if it is providing a neutral link to the generator...)
Otherwise if it was only providing L1 and L2, then anything 120v would only be connected to a live line, and no return path (unless it found a random one back through other appliances/devices to the L2 from L1- which would be ..... unwise....

The purpose of this type of cable is to provide an emergency connection between a generator and the dryer or oven receptacle in a house, which in turn provides power to the main distribution panel. A better solution is to permanently wire a backup generator into the electrical distribution system by relying on the neutral and earth connection at the main distribution panel.

This cable replicates the utility feed, which is two 120V lines and a neutral. In U.S. residential power distribution, the utility company provides a split-phase 120/240V feed with a neutral. The two 120V lines are 180 degrees out of phase, which is how the 240V distribution is made. The earth connection is made at the point of entry into the house with a grounding rod. The neutral and earth are bonded at the main distribution panel after the meter and utility disconnect, so the 120V line to neutral distribution is available.

I had a 10KVA Onan LPG generator in one of my houses in rural Virginia. The overhead power distribution was prone to outages during high winds or heavy icing and it could be days before the utility company could restore power. The output of the generator and the utility mains after the meter box were wired to a manual "break before make" transfer switch so I could select either source without risk of backfeeding power to the other. I had a light connected to the utility mains so I could tell when the power was restored and I could switch over.
 

Dabop

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I'm aware of the US system and how it works, but it has a lot of stuff that simply wouldn't pass muster here ('suicide cords' being only one of them)
The 'neutral/earth' has to come from the generator, if it was truly only a earth and two lines as you said before (actives as we would call them here in Oz) then if you had no loads between the L2 and the neutral line, any connected loads on the L1/N circuit would have their N floating, and wouldn't work... and connecting a load on the L2 would then provide a path from L1 to L2, with the voltage on each depending on each loads apparent load resistance...
Not good, as you could end up with well overvoltaged on one half, and undervolts on the other half....
'Smokin' as the Mask likes to say...
(the combined earth/neutral hasn't been allowed in new installs for several decades here in Australia (1970's/80's from memory) and if you used the same breaker system as in the UK or Oz, a 'suicide cord' like that genny/drier one wouldn't work anyway, as you would be using the earth circuit as part of the current return path, and the protection MCB's would immediately trip)
 

MikeK

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I'm aware of the US system and how it works, but it has a lot of stuff that simply wouldn't pass muster here ('suicide cords' being only one of them)
The 'neutral/earth' has to come from the generator, if it was truly only a earth and two lines as you said before (actives as we would call them here in Oz) then if you had no loads between the L2 and the neutral line, any connected loads on the L1/N circuit would have their N floating, and wouldn't work... and connecting a load on the L2 would then provide a path from L1 to L2, with the voltage on each depending on each loads apparent load resistance...
Not good, as you could end up with well overvoltaged on one half, and undervolts on the other half....
'Smokin' as the Mask likes to say...
(the combined earth/neutral hasn't been allowed in new installs for several decades here in Australia (1970's/80's from memory) and if you used the same breaker system as in the UK or Oz, a 'suicide cord' like that genny/drier one wouldn't work anyway, as you would be using the earth circuit as part of the current return path, and the protection MCB's would immediately trip)

I would never recommend the use of these cables because of the potential of bad things happening. I was a licensed journeman electrician before I left home to join the Army and see the world. I've seen plenty of horrible wiring jobs that would make it simple for an insurance inspector to deny a loss claim. Fixing these botched jobs was easy money for me and my boss. However, it wasn't until I worked in other countries and saw what passes for acceptable electrical distribution, such as an apartment in Korea with RG-11 coaxial cable for the wiring.

The plugs used in these jumpers are intended to be used on consuming equipment, not producing equipment. They do indeed have two lines and an earth terminal because that is what the end item equipment needs. When I wired in my generator and transfer switch, it was in full compliance with the National Electrical Code at the time and was inspected by a master electrician.
 

Dabop

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I know you can find worse than US codes- the issue is that when you look at at a 'Korean wired house' and say OMFG- there are plenty of other countries that look at US wiring and say 'OMFG' too...
The US is literally decades behind most other first world countries...
(I'm a trade qualified (4 year apprenticeship) elec fitter, with gridtie solar qualifications and decades of offgrid (as in nearly half a century) experience- I learned my craft on the government electric locos (ie NSW SRA) playing with multiple KV at tens of KA...so I am equally 'up to speed' when it comes to electricity...
;-)
The guy that comes to inspect your install- he would be a trainee here- literally- had enough yank sparkies come through the places I worked to know their knowledge levels lol
The last place we worked sacked a US 'master elec' because his work wasn't anywhere near up to standard here...
That's no BS either... he was walked offsite... on the spot dismissal...
 

Sideways

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Aw, guys ! It's no fun if there aren't 50 houses strung off a transformer up a pole and the whole lot fizzing and sparking in the rain :cool:
My favorite is upside down plastic water bottles to keep the rain out of the cable joints at the base of the streetlights.
 

Dabop

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Aw, guys ! It's no fun if there aren't 50 houses strung off a transformer up a pole and the whole lot fizzing and sparking in the rain :cool:
My favorite is upside down plastic water bottles to keep the rain out of the cable joints at the base of the streetlights.
My sister went to Thailand with one of her friends who came from there, and she sent me back some photos of the street cabling there (knowing I'd be interested lol)
Yeah... it was 'interesting' all right...
One of the things she saw was people 'pinching power' at night for lights- throwing a rope over the powerlines, and using that to drag a cut extension cord up over the line to get a illegal connection... like WOW...
 

gwaithcoed

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Had my first power cut today since getting the generator. Power company said it would be off for about 4 hours. My wife said not to worry changing over to the genny it will be back on shortly. No way I'm changing it over just to prove I was right to get one
I did say if you don't like it put your wooly hat on and turn the radiator off and sit in the front room till it comes back on. I am not allowed to put on the reply :):):)
Alan
 
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