laminate floor 'lifting' at the joins - any thin epoxy?

[oddsocks]

I've recently fitted a new kitchen including laminate floor (from Wren kitchens). I laid the floor (including the supplied foam/foil underlay) about 6 weeks ago onto the old stuck down lino (the previous glued laminate had been on this for 10+years). Everything went down great and I took care to ensure the boards were not damaged on the glueless profiles. Now, and after all the units etc are fitted, a couple of the boards have 'split at the seams' on the long edge, such that one edge is about 0.5mm higher than the next board and when you walk on it you feel it move. (back down to level). I have some laminate offcuts so joined them and can only assume that part of the mdf profile has failed thus creating a movement gap. Unfortunately lifting the floor now would be extremely difficult due to larder units, range cookers and end profiles on the floor supporting the worktop. I did leave 10mm expansion gaps all around the area and these are still visible.
I have already tried thin superglue and a ceiling prop to apply pressure whilst it set, but this only lasted a couple of days....i'm now looking for the next 'least destructive' repair. I do have some large printer ink syringes and wondered if anyone could recommend a thin epoxy that could be syringed in (if needs be I'll make a 2mm hole) that has both good gap filling and bonding properties. I have got normal car fibreglass resin and a white (dries clear) hardener but have been advised that that resin needs fibremat for strength,

Would the west epoxy system be thin enough and suitable?

in hindsight I should have purchased a more solid underlay and not used the 2mm soft foam/foil that Wren supplied, as it does flex where the unit legs are..mind you the area with the issue is not that close to those areas so I don't think its transferred pressure.
Thanks
Dave

 

[n0legs]

Are the units fitted on top of the laminate???
If so the floor has 'pinched', meaning the floor is not able to expand and contract.
If this has happened the floor has expanded creating a slight gap between it and the underlay (in effect the floor could be floating higher), then when walked on the tongue edge of the boards are acting like wedges in the groove of the next board causing your problem of lifting and steps at the joints.
I've seen this a few times, laminate is in no way mean't to be trapped.
For example a floor fixed door stop may require a 4-5mm diameter screw for fixing it down, but the hole in the laminate should be 15mm (bigger if you can) to allow the laminate to move.
A rep told me once the floor protection pads on the legs of furniture were not just to protect the floor from marking, they allowed less resistance for the floor to move under furniture. I thought it was b*******, but having seen a load of problems with floors he may have been right.
I'm sorry to say I doubt whether you will find a fix for this other than replacing the floor.

 

[Shrubby]

The cheap foam underlay is likely to be polyethylene which might as well be Teflon for its unglueability
I wouldn't rely on injecting glue to fix it. Maybe pulling off the kickboards and running an oscillating saw around under the units and then clamping the laminate together with glue in all the joints (don't envy you this job)
Matt

 

[RogerBoyle]

Sorry to hear of your troubles
But I can only echo what n0legs has said And I also fear your only real fix is to replace the floor

Were you advised to put the laminate down before fitting the kitchen Units on it ??? :evil: :evil:

 

[blackrodd]

I'm sorry to read of you're problem.
Should you still have a box that has the instructions etc on it, see if there is any mention of putting units, cookers, weight of any kind on the finished flooring.
Otherwise, The only thing I can think of is to take the kicker out and cut away the last board with a dremel type set up, and fiddle a board back in, perhaps notch around the unit's feet, replacing the kicker back to cover the deed, and thereby isolating the weight's effect.
HTH Regards Rodders

 

[Distinterior]

I've fitted literally hundreds of laminate floors in kitchens and I NEVER fit the floor before fitting the kitchen units.....!!!!

As the others have stated, the floor should be laid afterwards making sure you maintain the expansion gap between the flooring and the legs of the cabinets.

With regard to solving the problem now, my advice would be to remove the row of flooring that has come apart in the middle of the room, and work in both directions to strip the flooring up as far as possible under the kitchen units. Then ,re-lay the flooring replacing the faulty row in the middle of the room with new boards.

 

[Woodchips2]

I've used laminate in a living room and placed a heavy sideboard on it with no problems over many years. Wonder why a kitchen unit would cause problems but not a heavier sideboard?

Regards Keith

 

[Lons]

I've used laminate in a living room and placed a heavy sideboard on it with no problems over many years. Wonder why a kitchen unit would cause problems but not a heavier sideboard?

Regards Keith

I'm the same as the others, laminate expands and needs space to move, hence a gap all around the room.
One heavy bit of furniture may not affect it too much but kitchens have units fitted on more than one side which is why it's pinched.

cheers
Bob

 

[custard]

Dave, I'd definitely have a go with your syringed epoxy idea.

I doubt it'll work, but doubting isn't the same as knowing. It's a simple, quick, and relatively inexpensive option; and in the (admittedly unlikely) event that it effects a cure it will have saved you a great deal of time and money.

Seems to me you don't have much to lose by giving it a whirl.

Good luck!

 

[oddsocks]

Thanks all for the responses - for some reason I've not been notified of responses hence my tardiness in responding....
I was advised (but then again it was a salesman) to fit the floor first - previously I've only retrofitted laminate so not had the option to lay in a clean room. I've noticed that the same lifting/pinching is starting to happen elsewhere (no doubt as it gets warmer as I laid the floor at the end of Feb). I'm toying with the idea of using my CEL proIon multitool (Excellent tool!) to cut away from all the base unit feet as I can also see the depression when looking at the gap under a festool railed plinth edge. Not a job I'm looking forward to :-(

Re the box instructions, it just say flat floor (less than 3mm in 1m from memory) and 'ensure the floor can take the weight of anything placed on it (its on a concrete base).

The flooring is 7mm Egger Polar Oak - purchased via Wren Kithcens. Wren have stopped selling flooring (at least that range) but I can get some more online quite easily, so will order more if "plan A" fails.

Dave

 

[oddsocks]

I've now hopefully sorted out my notifications- my profile had a really old email address that I thought I'd changed ages ago.

My kitchen layout has a row of base units on one wall (so I'll make sure the feet are clear of laminate) but on the opposite wall is a freestanding range cooker (1m) and a washing machine, so not sure how to fit the floor to those, other than assume that that side is 'pinched' and the expansion is provided under the opposite units????

 

[blackrodd]

I Just found this, unfortunately for the OP. page 2, and the end of stage 3, says units first.
http://www.tesco.com/directuiassets/Mer ... ooring.pdf

Regards Rodders

 

[oddsocks]

thanks Rodders - I think I'll bow to the inevitable and finally re lay the floor but will try to 'retrofit' around the units first with my multitool.

On the plus side, notifications now work for me

 

[blackrodd]

TBH Oddsocks, that's exactly what I would do using the dremel type tool you mentioned,
Quite possibly the laminate will behave as it should after you're "adjustment"
You have probably thought of this, but, As a 10 mm gap has been mentioned, by various manufacturers, It may be a good idea to allow 10 mm all round the unit's "feet" for expansion in any direction.
Sometimes, I'm afraid the simplest of jobs can catch us all out, been there myself a few times!
Regards Rodders

 

[Distinterior]

Oddsocks,

I would definitely advise you to leave 8 to 10mm of clearance between the cabinet legs and your flooring.
The "floating" floor needs to have the ability to move in whatever direction it wants to. The kitchen unit plinths will hide the expansion gap once they are re-fitted.

You can lay the flooring underneath your Range cooker and W/M. Any small amount of movement of the floor below these appliances will not create any issues, but ensure you leave your expansion gap between the floor and the wall behind them.

Tim.

 

[oddsocks]

Thanks, will do - the whole room has 10mm gap around the edge. I need to address this before it gets much warmer, so probably this next weekend.

 

[doorframe]

The laminate in my lounge (13 yrs ago... really old glue together stuff.... no click lock) has held up better than any of the rubbish I've fitted since in other rooms. But, it started growing immediately, and the 10mm gap was gone within a year. It's been trimmed at least 3 times now. The only corner I never needed to trim is held firmly in place by a fish tank weighing around 1 ton.

 

[oddsocks]

Well, I did it. three hours of CEL multitool and 5 Saxton japanese coarse cut blades and I managed to release the fixed units from the floor ( I banned my wife from the kitchen as removing the various end unit panels took some 'reverse engineering'). Once I'd got the floor 'floating' I decided to lift and replace the problem area (with the floor released I could work from the 'near' end). By the time I'd finished I'd replaced 6 boards - the obvious ones plus 3 others that had started to show stress fractures in the MDF moulding (always the same part of the profile, the thin narrow bit, that was still attached but split so causing the join to be able to flex).
The floor is now flat, no creaks, and has a 10mm expansion gap.

Thanks for all the responses, they helped me realise there was no short term fix. On the board that I had superglued, it had actually delaminated in the same place but not at the glue join so gluing was not a long term solution.

Dave

 

[blackrodd]

Just seen you're post, you having overcome the trapped flooring.
Well done, pleased to hear it's fixed!
Regards Rodders