Knew Concept Jewellers saws

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Bluekingfisher

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I have been considering treating myself to a Knew Concept fret saw for removing the waste on dovetails. (on thinner stock )

Does anyone own one? or have experience of one?

Does the lever tensioning and swivel feature on the more expensive models makes a difference or just some added 'bling'

I was thinking of the 5" version, anyone have one this size or wish they had gone for a variant?

Info much appreciated. Thanks

David
 
I have the 5" lever and swivel saw, bought for me as a present a couple of years ago. I really love it and use it mainly for dovetailing as you suggest. You could use other saws but the lightness and balance of the Knew Concepts does help make up for my lack of skill! The shape of the frame means that you can focus on keeping this straight and level rather than having to focus on the cut which for me is easier.
I do use the lever tensioning which means you can easily release when not using the saw but I don't tend to use the swivel that much. I suppose if you did some fret work by hand it would come in useful but, I have a scroll saw for that.
I initially broke a few blades but after speaking to Matthew at Workshop Heaven, this was down to me trying to force the cut. You only really need very light pressure and with the skip blades, it sails through oak, walnut, sycamore etc.
David Barron uses (and sells) these so if you haven't already seen them in action, have a quick look at some of his YouTube videos.
 
I always thought those saws looked the dogs, do you really need a reason to buy one!? :lol:
 
woodpig":eh2ykn3k said:
I always thought those saws looked the dogs, do you really need a reason to buy one!? :lol:

Not really, just an input to establish the best all rounder, or if the bling bits are really needed. :wink:

David
 
I have one too. It was bought and used for cutting out delicate parts for an antique model repair and is the larger version. Now I mainly use it for cutting out intricate shares in abalone for inlays, which it excels at. The tension lever and swivel are useful. The saw is very easy to handle and the frame is rigid which seems to help with accuracy. I have not had an issue with blade breakages. However, they are very expensive and I do not use mine a great deal so it would not necessarily be on my "must have" list. I do not own a powered scroll saw.
 
Bluekingfisher":2jp6svun said:
I have been considering treating myself to a Knew Concept fret saw for removing the waste on dovetails. (on thinner stock )

Does anyone own one? or have experience of one?

Does the lever tensioning and swivel feature on the more expensive models makes a difference or just some added 'bling'

I was thinking of the 5" version, anyone have one this size or wish they had gone for a variant?

Info much appreciated. Thanks

David

Hi David

Two reviews for you to read!

The Knew Concepts Fretsaw – from prototype to production: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... etsaw.html


The Knew Concepts Birdcage Fretsaw - a critical look: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... etsaw.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
I bought mine from Classic Hand Tools at the Harrogate show just gone, I've not had chance to try it out other than making a few test cuts but I was pleased with those.
I went for the 5" swivel & lever tension rather than the fixed as I figured with my luck it wouldn't be long before I needed a greater depth of cut than the 5" would allow & at least the swivel action would over come this.
 
I had the original, but prefer a coping saw (and sold that original fretsaw). The original was an aluminum version that didn't have quick release.

I preferred the original german style fretsaw to the no frills knew concept saw, though I understand the latter is improved by now, and I only use a fretsaw for fretwork, not for dovetails.
 
I bought one recently (from this forum no less) and it's excellent at what it does, far better than cheaper ones I've tried over the years.

Mine is the screw tension, no swivel, but only because that's what came up for sale. If I was buying new I would want the lever but probably not the swivel.
 
You can cut superb dovetails with cheaper saws, but if you're new to dovetailing you'll find it easier to cut accurately and confidently with a Knew Concepts saw.

The reason is that the blade tension can be much higher, which keeps the blade straighter. With cheaper saws the blade sags and you need to pay a lot more attention to stop yourself drifting away from the cut line. After you've used a cheaper saw for a while the correction necessary becomes second nature, but in the early days you want things to be as straightforward as possible.

Do you need the swivel angle adjuster? For most furniture scale drawers no you don't, and for the occasional larger project you can twist the blade at each end to 45 degrees with a pair of pliers.

Couple of other points. The wider the throat the weaker the tension, and tension is what you need, so don't get a throat any bigger than necessary or you'll compromise the main reason for buying a Knew Concept saw in the first place. Blades are important, the Pegas ones are terrific, and don't get something too fine. The quicker you cut the more accurately you'll cut, at least in the beginning, and clearing the waste isn't a finish cut, for that you'll use a chisel, so a rough surface really isn't a problem. I tend to make a third cut with my dovetail saw in the centre of the waste and then cut out from that central point towards the corners of the tails with a fret saw, it takes a fraction longer but as I fit my dovetails straight from the dovetail saw with no paring it keeps the corners cleaner and prevents any damage caused by twisting the fret saw into the cut.

It's good to hear from someone cutting dovetails without a jig, smart decision, it's really not difficult and it opens the door to lots more joints and projects.

Good luck!
 
Just came across the email from Matthew at Workshop Heaven re-my problem with the blades which might help.
I can't think Matthew will mind me posting this.

My preferred blade for dovetailing is the 9R Skip Reverse (pegas No 90.431) it has a patch of reverse teeth at the end so you end up with an entry side quality cut on both faces.

The supplied No.10 Skip would also be a suitable choice for the material and dimensions you were working with, so the following might be worth considering as possible contributors too:

1) Over tensioning, when switching from a standard jewellers saw to a Knew Concepts people are used to having to crank on every last newton of tension they can get. The Knew concepts is much more rigid so you need to choose an appropriate amount of tension rather than just maxing it out.

2) Coarser blades, working well within their operational capacity, tend to last longer, clog less and cut straighter than finer ones.

3) A Jewellers saw is as close as you can get to 'teeth floating in fresh air', many people moving from coping saws tend to carry on using the same speed and pressure as they would with a dovetail saw / coping saw until they develop a feel for the considerably lighter touch required.

4) The blades are still a consumable, hence they are sold by the dozen and the gross. You should get better blade life with a Knew Concepts than you would with any other saw thanks to the longitudinal stiffness of the frame, but there will still be a rate of consumption.
 
custard":1nkfc0os said:
I tend to make a third cut with my dovetail saw in the centre of the waste and then cut out from that central point towards the corners of the tails with a fret saw, it takes a fraction longer but as I fit my dovetails straight from the dovetail saw with no paring it keeps the corners cleaner and prevents any damage caused by twisting the fret saw into the cut.

That's an interesting variation on the technique (with a coping saw) here:

post411280.html?hilit=%20previous%20discussion%20#p411280

dt_wast.png


BugBear
 
bugbear":26bxd44p said:
custard":26bxd44p said:
I tend to make a third cut with my dovetail saw in the centre of the waste and then cut out from that central point towards the corners of the tails with a fret saw, it takes a fraction longer but as I fit my dovetails straight from the dovetail saw with no paring it keeps the corners cleaner and prevents any damage caused by twisting the fret saw into the cut.

That's an interesting variation on the technique (with a coping saw) here:

post411280.html?hilit=%20previous%20discussion%20#p411280

dt_wast.png


BugBear

That is exactly what I've done now for years. It takes about the same amount of time as using a fretsaw (more cutting, but faster saw). And it avoids any thin saw issues.
 
If it helps the 5" lever tension version is by far the most popular with our customers. This gives you enough capacity to handle up to 10" wide boards (cutting in from both sides) and the lever tensioning system is faster and retains your settings so that you don't need to dial it in each time. Keeping the frame level is a much more natural and intuitive way to keep the cut horizontal.

The swivel facility is probably best regarded as an 'occasional use extra'. If you want to make a dovetailed blanket chest for example, it will come in very handy, but for most people it is rare to cut DT's in a board more than 10" wide. If you are using the swivel facility, the knack is to keep your eyes focused on the the gold coloured thumbscrews, not the frame. Best to take some practice cuts first as this takes a little bit of getting used to.

11236147_1076717642372805_253093914196928315_o.jpg


For thicker stuff the Pegas 9R blades are outstanding, for thinner work we have developed a new blade with pegas, the No.5DPR (dovetail progressive reverse) which has small teeth, as widely spaced as we could get away with, and all pointing into the centre. The DPR blades cut equally from both sides so you get a clean corner with no spelching, they are thin enough fit down the kerf of a Japanese saw and turn at the bottom.

Hope this helps.
 

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