Kitchen Lights

[Noel]

Having put up with two single light bulbs in our kitchen for the last 10 years I reckoned, with some encouragement....., that's it's the right time to upgrade. Want the recessed spot light type. Few questions -

230v direct or transformer type?

will ceiling insulation effect cooling/heat build up?

been reading about GU10 (?) bulbs and longevity and cost to replace. Presume you get what you pay for?

any credence in the theory that a dimmer set low (like soft start) will make the bulbs last longer?

Essentially, I know very little about such lights. So any first hand knowledge (including fitting) would be appreciated

TIA

Noel

 

[Chris Knight]

Noel,

I know sweet Fanny about the electrical side of these things but I am a very disappointed user of them!

1. They don't seem to last long. Either the bulbs or the transformers blow

2. Dimmer switches are always making a buzzing noise or switching the lights off at some point during their traverse from min to max.

3. They can be hard to grasp when trying to change the bulbs

 

[johnelliott]

Downlighters are a bunch of c**p. Do not fit them. If you want halogens then I would suggest the type that swivel and are usually mounted 3 on a short rail, external, 240 volt no transformer. Available very resonably priced from B&Q etc.
Probably not as much light overall as a neon tube, so you will probably want lights under the wall units as well
John

 

[Anonymous]

I would have expected a dimmer to extend bulb life in 240V lamops but not transformer lamps

Reason is the resistance of a bulb is at it's lowest when cold and so the current is higher at switch-on (ohms law I=V/R), however, as the bulb warms the resistance increases a lot (positive temperature coefficient) and the current reduces. A dimmer could supply low voltage at first until the bulb warms up and so there is less surge current and thus less strain on the bulb.

This is why bulbs almost always blow at switch-on

 

[Bean]

I fitted some to my kitchen over two years ago, not had a bulb blow yet, the transformers are quiet and fitted in the ceiling void. but not close to the lights due to the heat given off, they also give out plenty of light (50W). I over specced the transformers by assuming I would be using 6 50W bulbs instead of the 4 used. Not sure if that is significant in the lack of noise.
All of the components came from Screwfix, the lights are used a lot as we seem to congregate in the kitchen. However I do believe that transformers can be a bit of a lottery.

Bean

 

[Anonymous]

Don't forget that as the kitchen is considered to be a wet area then it is covered by the new building regulations part P which came into force on Jan 1st.

No problem with you doing the work to change the light fittings, but you are required to report it to the local council so that they can send someone out to inspect it - at a sizeable cost which could be up to £200.

http://www.handymac.co.uk/PartP.asp

Andrew

 

[mudman]

Got four downlighters in our kitchen and they are tagged for removal and destruction when we get around to doing the kitchen. Will be replacing with good old fluorescent light.
Were installed by previous occupants and cast horrible shadows just where you don't want them, the units keep dropping out and hanging by the wire and it seems a very short interval between bulbs going.

 

[Bean]

Mudman
we planned the position and angle very carefully to minimise the casting of shadows, its important as we discovered from a friends house where the kitchen company just banged four in the ceiling.

Bean

 

[Anonymous]

Noel,

We have had 12v halogen lights in our kitchen for some years. Eventually, the transformers packed up and I replaced them with transformers from Screwfix.

The lights now seem very dim and I suspect that the transformers are not giving out 12 volts. One of these days I will get round to checking the voltage - and of course if they need replacing I will have to pay a fortune to get a qualified(?) electrician to replace them.

Howard

 

[Vormulac]

I have halogen downlighters in my lounge and dining room, they were installed by the previous owners and I've now been there four years without having to change any of them. No discernable hum from the dimmers either.

On the other hand, they installed ordinary mains voltage spots in the kitchen and the pippers blow on an infuriatingly regular basis!

V.

 

[Les Mahon]

I've get hologen downlighters in bathroom and living room, and under the units in the kitchen... also have installed then in 3 other houses. The transformers can blow, especially is they are let get too hot - make sure if you are putting them in the ceiling space that you put them above the insulation. I've never had to replace the bulbs in any of them over the last 3 years.

I also found that the ones under the cabinets in the kitchen (which are 10W) get dimmer the further they are from the transformer! I think it is something to do with the cable not being beffy enough, though I have checked and the cable is not getting warm which was my worry. If anyone has ideas I'd be delighted to hear them before I go fishing new cable through the wall space.

Les

 

[Anonymous]

Don't forget that if you are putting downlighters in you have to fit covers:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/ ... index.html

You also need to use chocboxes to attach any lighting in the ceiling void:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CHOCBOX.html

An ordinary terminal block, even wrapped in tape, isn't good enough to satisfy the regulations. The chocboxes have cable strain relief built in.

And as I commented earlier, you can do the work yourself, but thanks to part P which came into play on Jan 1st you will have to notify the local council. They will send out a tame spark to inspect and test the installation, and then provide you with a certificate (or not, if he decides the work isn't up to scratch).

It can work out expensive! If you don't follow the rules and there is an incident (e.g. fire) then your building insurers might get choosey about whether they want to pay out.....

Andrew

 

[Noel]

Andrew, understand all the consequences of the new regs. My sparky friend will do all the final checks etc. Council will not be involved.
Wonder if the new regs apply overhere? We're usually about 5 - 10 years behind the UK. At the moment they're talking about introducing water charges in a few years. Next thing they'll want to bring in poll tax or community charge, whatever it's called. At the moment all we pay is rates and that's about £400 a year, crazy.

Cheers

Noel

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry Noel, I have no idea where you are based but it is obviously outside of the UK mainland.

Andrew

 

[DaveL]

Sorry Noel, I have no idea where you are based but it is obviously outside of the UK mainland.

Andrew

Andrew,

Look at the panel next to the post:

Noely
Moderator

Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 1004
Location: Limavady, N. Ireland


If the member has filled in the information on their profile it will be displayed for all to see. :wink:

Therefore I know you claim to be in Bracknell, Berkshire. :shock:

 

[Noel]

Thanks Dave, at times I do feel as if I live in a foreign country...
The view out the back makes up for it.
So, Andrew, out of curiosity, are the new regs applicable over here?

Noel

 

[Anonymous]

Look at the panel next to the post:

Homer Simpson has got the response I need.....

Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

So, Andrew, out of curiosity, are the new regs applicable over here?

As far as I know, no. But watch out for this becoming an EU directive in due course, then it might be.

I won't get started on what I think of this appalling legislation, but believe me I am dead set against it. Principle is fine (saving lives), but they could easily have achieved that goal without all the red tape.

And it is apparently to save 2.6 lives a year in the UK, lives that are due to faulty wiring installations. Now call me a cynic, but when people find out how much it is going to cost to get the certification carried out they will probably say "sod that" and do the job themselves. End result, more darwin candidates.

Andrew

 

[Les Mahon]

Noely,

last time I checked N. Ireland was in the UK! you mean you have your own building regs?

Les

 

[Noel]

Hi Les, how's sunny Cork? I think we are part of UK. Really depends who you're talking to or who you are watching on TV.........
Building regs could well be different from the UK. As I mentioned we are well behind in most things (and long may it last...).

Noel