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Kitchen carcass - irregular joint

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RogerS

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To maximise space I want to build a carcass as shown here



(NB final wall and door not shown for clarity)

What's exercising my braincells is how to make the joints at X and X. Firstly how to ensure that the angled edges are the correct angle and consistent down the length of the board. Current favourite is some sort of jig to slide down the board and use a router but all sounds a bit Heath Robinson to me.

Secondly - how to join them.

Or is the sensible option to ignore the triangular storage space? Width of unit is 600mm wide.

Proposed carcass will be ?? Contiboard? MDF? Any recommendations?
 

Chris Knight

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Roger,

You can make the angled cuts in a number of ways.

Handplane to marks,
Angled cuts on the TS
Angled jig for the router table etc.

Join with glue. If need be, cut a couple of formers to support the pieces athe the correct angles whilst clamping them up.

I would use MDF.
 

RogerS

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waterhead37":1gx8gixu said:
Roger,


Angled cuts on the TS
Thanks Chris

Whenever I've tried this I always end up with the line wandering way off the mark and also the angle floating around all over the place. Long board as well means a challenging operation (2m long) but I'm willing to have another go ..any suggestions as to technique?

Glueing? I came across this possibility but having never used a pockethole have no idea as to how easy/which particular Kreg (Rocket? k2000?) one would need http://www.brimarc.com/home.php3?page=products&pc=C_132_9&PHPSESSID=1bae41cc3b97f09e92c39e96fe422635
 

Argee

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Can't help on the joint, as the pic won't open. Regarding the pocket hole jigs, I picked up the Kreg Mini system from Brimarc at Kempton Park (£15.22 on their site). This is the single hole jig, with step drill. A box of the relevant pan-head screws, a square driver (if you don't already have one), a quick squint at the instruction leaflet and away you go!

I've so far been very impressed with this little tool, although I still don't understand why Axminster have it on sale for so much more money (£28.27).

Ray.
 

Chris Knight

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Roger,

Sounds as if you need a help on the saw. I frequently press LOML into such service. She takes the end of the piece coming off the saw and helps steady it, keep it in the right direction etc if I can't control it at my end - particularly useful when ripping long thin strips.

It helps to have a zero clearance insert for such jobs, depending on the angle, you may find yourself wanting the saw to support the feather edge near the blade. Best if you can cut it flat on the table of course.

If you doubt your planing ability - should you go that route, make up an angled fence for the jointer plane (No 7 or 8) - see Alf's recent review - you can easily knock one up out of a few scraps. Likewise, you could clamp angled wedges to your P/T fence to get a similar result.
 

jasonB

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I would bisect the angle so both sides of the joint are equally angled not just the center board as you have shown. Cut with the blade tilted in the tablesaw if you have one with sufficient ripping capacity, if not circ saw with the blade tilted run along a straight edge.

The joint could be reinforced with biscuits or if you don't have a bicky jointer then one way of pulling the joint together is to lay the two boards side by side, run 2" masking tape down the joint. Then turn the boards over, run glue into the "V" then lift one board up to close the joint.

MDF will give you more chance of filling the joint if you don't get it spot on and there is no risk of the melamine chipping on the pointed edges.

Jason
 

RogerS

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jasonB":14j4skt3 said:
circ saw with the blade tilted run along a straight edge.

The joint could be reinforced with biscuits or if you don't have a bicky jointer then one way of pulling the joint together is to lay the two boards side by side, run 2" masking tape down the joint. Then turn the boards over, run glue into the "V" then lift one board up to close the joint.

jason
Doh :oops: :oops: I'd completely forgotten about my Festool TS55 and guiderails. :oops: :oops:

Your joint suggestions are excellent as I;d not thought about that approach before.

Thanks everyone for the other suggestions.

Cheers

Roger
 

Scrit

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Best method of cutting - panel saw (i.e. a big saw bench), radial arm saw or failing that a straight edge and circular saw - oh, I see you've got that :lol: . Make sure that you can support the full length of the joint absolutely flat - it's very difficult to joint wooden bananas! I'd seriously try to get the local sheet material supplier to cut it for you if they possess a panel saw with a tilting blade - just the joint angles. For example our Altendorf panel saw can cut consistently and repeatably at 0.1 degree tilt increments which beats any non-panel saw I've ever used.

Best method to join them:

1. Biscuits (assuming you've got a biscuit jointer with a "folding" fence on a quadrant). You may need to make-up an angled shoe and/or angled suppory plate to locate the jointer blade correctly. The biscuit slot needs to be at exactly 90 degrees to the edge of the workpiece)

2. Loose tenon. Groove down each face with the cut being made nearer to the inside of the carcase than to the outside (draw this and you'll see what I mean). This can only be achieved with a table saw or radial arm saw (and having said that someone will now prove me wrong.....) If you groove with the same 3.2mm kerf saw blade that cut the original joint (this is a GOOD reason to have a standard blade in a 10in or 12in sawbench, BTW) you can make the loose tennon from 1/8in hardwood plywood.

3. Take a look at these nifty angle joint fixings from Hafele (http://www.hafele.co.uk). Go to Products/On-Line Catalogue and log in as a guest - look for Furniture Fittings/Carcase and Shelf Fittings/KD Fittings/Connecting Bolts then page down until you get to the MiniFix GV mitre joint connectors on around page 6 (http://www.hafele.co.uk/Hafele35a1/Temp ... 011&page=6 - if it works) - we use this type of fastener on Point of Sale stands, etc - you'll also need MiniFix 15 or similar cam fixings to utilise these, plus a drilling jig (or a CNC router).

4. Dowelled - make up a lipped dowelling block with the drillings biased towards the inside of the joint (rather like the biscuit slots above)

5. Angled hardwood glue/screw blocks on the inside - they won't be seen, so does it really matter? This is the low tech approach, but it will work.

I don't think you could use a pocket hole for a situation like this as there is a grave danger of screwing straight through the outer face of the material.

Either way the joint must be equally bisected (as staed by a previous poster).

I'd also suggest trying to cadge up a bit of MF-MDF (melamine faced MDF) for this job rather than MFC (melamine faced chipboard) as the acute angle will tend to chip-out a lot more if sawn from MFC. Raw MDF would be the most amenable to being filled and repaired but is a pain to finish.

Hope this helps

Scrit
 

RogerS

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Finally got round to making this up but calculating the setting for the angle on the Festool TS55 has turned my brain to fudge. I measured one of the angles at X and it was 145 degrees. So I thought I needed to 'lose' 35 degrees (180-145) between the two panels which made the angle to cut 17.5 degrees ..give or take. Which is what I did but the result was miles out.

In the end I just adopted trial and error to get the angles spot-on but I'd really like to know how you go about doing it a bit more scientifically. Does anyone know?

For the record, I'm reinforcing/supporting the joints using biscuits although the Hafele stuff suggested was quite appealing.
 

special bone

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If the angle turned out to be about 27.5 degrees, then I have no idea why :oops:

I've drawn this out using my best A-Level maths skills and it should be 17.5 degrees (assuming a normal cut is 0, otherwise it's 72.5).

If your final angle is neither of the above, it would suggest that your original measurement was not 145 degrees :?

Then again I could be wrong (again).

I'd still go for trial and error because the accuracy of your cut is only as good as your least accurate tool.

Good luck,

Rich
 

SketchUp Guru

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Roger, I think your approach is as scientific as you need. I don't know what happened but you should have your saw set 17.5° off of perpendicular to get the joint you drew. I drew it out in SU to confirm it all. I could make a drawing to show you if you want.
 

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