Keto diet

[sammy.se]

I have tried Keto a few years ago when Dr Mike Mosely was first promoting it. (Incidentally I think now he has morphed into just a salesman with a new scheme each year). It definitely worked for wight loss, but I found it tedious to sustain and eventually slipped off it. I also did the fasting diet he promoted, which also works but is hard to sustain.

Lockdown indolence led to me gradually piling on weight and becoming pre-diabetic. I am 6' 2" and ended up at 137.5 kg. My doctor sent me on "One You Kent" diet and exercise programme. This is free and versions are run countrywide. This is not a prescriptive diet but more a set of tools and learning about food groups, and includes exercise classes. It starts with a 12 week intensive programme and lasts a year. Typically the people who achieve success with this count calories and ensure their diet is balanced.

Counting calories is MUCH harder than I thought. It is a fool's errand unless you weigh your food initially to establish how much you are really eating. I was amazed how many calories some foods contain. I used My Fitness Pal app (as someone mentioned above) and was scrupulously careful. The idea is to establish permanent lifestyle choices that we are happy to sustain.

I started in late September 2021 and currently weigh 120Kg, so that is a loss of 17.5Kg (nearly 39 pounds). Plateau periods seem inevitable and I have accepted that it will take time to get to my goal of 95-98Kg. On the NHS BMI app this would still make me overweight - they suggest a max of 88Kg. However, I have a broad and muscly build and realistically 88Kg is not right for me. I hope to reach my goal at some point in late summer. I am in a sustained push now, expect to have one more plateau, then another sustained push.

To achieve results so far I think the key things have been: cut out all alcohol, stop eating bread, eat hardly any potatoes, cut out orange juice, no sweets and biscuits. Sugar is very much the enemy and alcohol unfortunately is empty calories.

I find that I have to weigh myself daily. This is to prevent slippage (and I know is not recommended). Just as important a guide for me is waist measurement (It needs to get down to 32" and is not there yet or anywhere close) and mirror aesthetics.

I think some form of structured exercise and stretching is very important to really get the feeling of wellbeing.

Good luck with your keto plan and I hope it works for you. I would suggest you develop a sustainability plan for what you will do when you have reached your target. This is to prevent the yo-yo effect starting and I wish I had done this when I first did the keto programme.

Diets / lifestyle choices only work if we want them to. It's not easy at all.

Amazing, well done.
I agree - not easy. The mental effort involved for me personally when I'm trying to lose weight is so huge. Overwhelming almost. Keto has been/is the best approach for me, but the mental aspects to eating are still my biggest challenge

 

[sammy.se]

I’m not sure long term keto diets are terribly healthy, certainly anybody considering a keto diet should consider the risks:

keto diets:
1) May have high fat content, so could raise bad cholestoral levels.

2) keto diets contain the types of foods that are associated with cancer risks

3) keto diets can hasten kidney disease or kidney stones. There is concern that high protein intake may promote renal damage by chronically increasing glomerular pressure and hyperfiltration

4) Keto is not safe for those with any conditions involving their pancreas, liver, thyroid or gallbladder

5) a keto diet depletes potassium, this leads to high high blood pressure. Potassium supplements or lots of vegetables should be considered on a keto diet.

Hi Robin, Thanks for the counter point. I know proponents of Keto can come across quite... enthusiastic
I started Keto in 2007, and haven't stayed on it the whole time since then. When I have, I've always felt better. That's just a personal experience, not a scientific study.

1/ To your points above, bad fats (processed fats, seed oils, margarine, hydrogenated fats etc.) are bad for anyone, not just Keto. Olive Oil, grass fed butter, is great for everyone.

2/ Cancer feeds off sugar. Doctors will often tell cancer patients to immediately stop eating refined sugars and lower carb intake. I always ask people with cancer (if it's not rude) what doctors tell them about food - it's quite consistent. I'm not saying other foods don't contribute to cancer.

3/ High-protein is not good - agreed. A diet made of entirely lean protein, with no healthy fats is not good for you. But that's not what Keto is. Egg yolks, butter, olive oil, natural meat fats etc are all good for you and is Keto. But, by the way, what is 'high'? who said we should have five fruit a day? five apple or bananas is a LOT of sugar. There is actually no science to show five a day is good for you, unless you know otherwise? my point is, 'high', 'low' - where does it come from? it's not always based in science (e.g. 5 per day).

4/ Not sure how you got that info? Keto is especially good for organs, because of two things: The hormone responses (Insulin etc.) is far more regulated, which puts much less pressure on the body. Fat loss on Keto is removed from around the organs first or at least quicker than other methods, also reducing pressure on organs

5/ Again, not sure if you have based this point on a study or something? a lot of the Drs on the low-carb MD podcast will attribute low-carb eating with reducing blood pressure...

I know you think I (and others) sound INSANE saying we should eat meat, fat, egg yolks. But just remember one thing:
There was a point in time when smoking cigarettes was considered good for you by doctors. We should open our minds to the possibility that doctors might be wrong again, about what food we should eat...

Dr Tim Noakes has a great story to tell about low-carb. And Nina Teicholz and Gary Taubes have some great science-based info as well. All can be found on YouTube.

 

[RobinBHM]

Hi Robin, Thanks for the counter point. I know proponents of Keto can come across quite... enthusiastic

Yes indeed, thank you for your detailed post. Some of the other responses Ive had seem to be along the lines that "you dont what you are talking about", however what I posted was based on the evidence Ive found from reliable sources

It is true that keto diets do have success in reducing type 2 diabetes and epilepsy and can help with weight loss

my research came from amongst others, these sources:

1 Join Zoe " Given that it’s not a balanced diet and cuts out so many nutritious foods, there’s good reason to believe that continuing with it for a significant amount of time would not be healthy "
https://joinzoe.com/learn/is-keto-safe
2. NCBI: "the Keto diet is limited and/or contraindicated in patients with liver failure, pancreatitis, inborn disorders of fat metabolism, primary carnitine deficiency............ Long-term side effects include hepatic steatosis, kidney stones, hypoproteinemia, and vitamin deficiency. "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7480775/
3 frontiers in nutrition: " Foods and dietary components that typically increase on ketogenic diets (eg, red meat, processed meat, saturated fat) are linked to an increased risk of CKD, cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, and Alzheimer's disease, whereas intake of protective foods (eg, vegetables, fruits, legumes, whole grains) typically decreases. Current evidence suggests that for most individuals, the risks of such diets outweigh the benefits. "

Chronic Kidney disease and kidne stones: " potential risk of animal-based ketogenic diets for those without CKD is the development of CKD through the consumption of animal fat and protein. In observational studies of populations eating Western diets, high animal fat consumption, as is common with ketogenic diets, has been associated with increased risk of developing albuminuria (107). In a prospective study of nearly 12,000 people over 23 years, high animal protein consumption was associated with a 23% increased hazard ratio of incident CKD "

Cancer: " Long-term data on cancer outcomes with ketogenic diets are lacking. However, food components typical of a ketogenic diet, such as red and processed meats, are linked to increased cancer risk (75–77). Whole grains, fruits, and vegetables are linked to a lower risk of both cancer and all-cause mortality (78, 79), yet, with the exception of non-starchy vegetables, these foods are commonly avoided on ketogenic diets. "


scientific studies can and often do include bias because of vested interest, meat industry lobbyists and plant based industry lobbyists will want to reach different conclusions


If people have tried other diets and have found success with the keto diet then great, the diet is better than the diets that havent worked. All I wanted to do was point out the potential risks.

 

[D_W]

Well done Artie!

Here's a tip for being new to Keto: As you see results, you might think "This is great, if I cut down fat consumption I will lose even more" - so people will try only eating lean tuna, lean fish, lean meat etc etc.
This is one of those false economies - Keto works well with fat in the diet. Extra Virgin Olive oil, and Kerry's Butter (from grass fed cows) is good for you, as is meat fats if you like that.

Try and avoid seed oils if you can - like sunflower oil, rapeseed oil, corn oil (yeah it's technically a grain I guess) - these are highly processed and aren't really fit for human consumption. They used to be used in industry before it was sold to humans to eat!

Add spinach and any leaves to your diet to help with constipation. Any leaf is fine on keto. Personally, I have also found that drinking a little bit more water while on Keto is good more me - but that might be true regardless of diet!

As others have said before, chemically processed meat isn't anti-Keto (unless they contain carby fillers), but it's just not that nice for your body... You will probably wean yourself off once you discover how nice a steak is with some butter and salad dressed in olive oil!

From the short bits that I've been on it, cutting out fats is a terrible idea. You're basically left with fiber and protein. Protein is an OK level food source, but to find 1500 calories of protein a day is a real tough task. The fiber calories if food is very fibrous and non sugary are overstated.

My ultimate problem with keto was that I just couldn't eat enough because meats with nitrites will give me migraines after a couple of days or consumption. That means all of the organic crapola, too, as the pig meats have "celery salt" instead of nitrites - or translation, they also have nitrites.

 

[D_W]

(eric westman is a good *real* clinician who has been at duke med for a long time, and he does seem to have some bias, but he's not fanatical...and he's at duke and not a chiropractor's school or something. Duke is not a patsy low-effort university).

 

[Inspector]

My ultimate problem with keto was that I just couldn't eat enough because meats with nitrites will give me migraines after a couple of days or consumption. That means all of the organic crapola, too, as the pig meats have "celery salt" instead of nitrites - or translation, they also have nitrites.

The only meats with nitrates in them that I know of are bacons, sausages, hams, and deli meat. Fresh meat doesn't that I am aware of and if it does it has to be labeled as such, here at least. We bought a side of beef from a farmer, cut and wrapped by an approved and inspected butcher shop and it probably cost less than half what the supermarket charges. Very tasty meat to boot. Did the same with a lamb and are on a list for some pork in the spring. You Yanks and your processed and wrapped food.

Pete

 

[D_W]

yeah, pretty much the pig stuff. lunch meats are out unless you want to spend $50 a day on food (they were for me, at least - anything heavily processed seems like a bad idea).

Most of the lunch meats here that aren't outright trash are about $8 a pound and usually lean. Chicken, fish, eggs, beef...all still in the rotation, but hard to eat enough of to not drop weight too fast.

 

[AJB Temple]

Nitrites and nitrates are somewhat misunderstood. Worth a read: The truth about the nitrates in your food

~It shows that most are found in vegetables.

Re the earlier question on bowel movements, I suspect I am not typical as I have IBS arising from a congenital stomach issue. Constipation would be a relief...However, bowel regularity is relatively easily controlled with things like fybogel should you feel the need.

People can get very evangelistic about diets, but there is no need. Most of us are smart enough to understand the need for good nutrition, and we know when we are gaining weight. It's then a choice whether to act or not.

 

[artie]

Nothing to shout about this week up 100 grams

Week 1 80 kg
Week 2 79.1 kg
week 3 79.2 kg

I actually followed the diet closer than first week.

 

[Chris_Pallet]

It looks like we may be going on a keto diet.

SWMBO is looking into it.

Anyone here have any experience?

I done it for 6 months,

I'd recommend take it slow and steady,don't go cold turkey immediately just start slowly cutting out carbs.

Easy way to understand it is to think
Your body is a fire
Carbs = burn slow
Fat = burns quick

Like other comments, carbs are cheap.

You'd normally buy a ham baguette
Now you will buy and eat a pack of ham, salad some cheese and still fill hungry lol.

Once you've done a few weeks and your body has adjusted, Your'll notice difference in weight and start to enjoy your 50th vegetable stir fry haha.

Let your tastes and body work it for you rather than a stricked rule book and not enjoy it.

Good luck.......

 

[artie]

I done it for 6 months,

So did you reach your target and stop or...?

 

[Chris_Pallet]

So did you reach your target and stop or...?

Oh yes most definitely, lost over a stone and just slowly got back into full fat diet lol.

But make us think more and eat better, and now we have a courgette spiriliser in cupboard lol

 

[artie]

Oh yes most definitely, lost over a stone and just slowly got back into full fat diet lol.

But make us think more and eat better, and now we have a courgette spiriliser in cupboard lol

That's great, but you don't keep to keto?

 

[Chris_Pallet]

That's great, but you don't keep to keto?

Haha Na I love the carbs too much now lol

 

[woodieallen]

Ok here we go then.
Is it you position that, if I eat 1500 calories of cheese and onion crisps, it will have the exact same effect as if I eat 1500 calories of spinach?

Yes. You missed his key words ....counting calories. Wise up. Keto is a bad thing. Our bodies work best on a balanced diet. Just not a lot.

 

[woodieallen]

...Good luck trying to eat 1500 calories of spinach in one sitting though.

....

He'd be bloody strong, though

 

[mikej460]

Ag ag ag ag ag

 

[artie]

Yes. You missed his key words ....counting calories.

No I didn't, it was those exact words I replied to, with, "It's not that simple"

Wise up. Keto is a bad thing.

What's with the attitude, I'm not promoting a keto diet, just trying it out, If you look at the replies there seem to be more in favour than against.

Our bodies work best on a balanced diet. Just not a lot.

Define balanced diet?

 

[Speedy23]

Don't worry, keep on with the keto...
Mr. Allen is one of those know-it-alls who doesn't.

If your keto diet is not going as well as expected, it is usually down to overdoing the carbs. It is amazing how they can mount up, especially if you are still eating fruit or starchy vegetables.

Have you tried using ketone test strips, to see if your body is actually in ketosis or not?

Also be aware that some of the processed cheeses with fruity bits that are now becoming popular contain an amazing amount of sugar....Tesco White Stilton with Ginger and Mango contains 20% sugar!!

So just buckle down, green veg, salads, normal cheese, eggs, butter, bacon, meat.....enough to be going on with until you get things back on an even keel.

 

[RobinBHM]

If you look at the replies there seem to be more in favour than against

that’s because the people interested In this thread are keto advocates.

it’s like saying most people who joined UKworkshop are in favour of woodwork as a hobby