Keto diet

[artie]

It looks like we may be going on a keto diet.

SWMBO is looking into it.

Anyone here have any experience?

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

A couple of goes; it's effective initially (though like everything else that's mostly water loss), but I didn't find it useful longer term, and it's a fair bit of effort and inconvenience.

What I found more effective was working out my calorie intake and how I could reduce it while still eating stuff I liked, along with reducing meal size (so you don't get that full/empty cycle to the same extent) in exchange for adding elevenses and afternoonses, and forming habits for sustainable, happy eating and weight loss.

 

[porker]

I've been keto for about 18 months now. Reason for me was to control diabetes type2. It hs worked well so far. I know there has recently been a thread running with heated opinions on some elements so my views are simply my own based on a lot of research (for and against) to try to get the balanced view. Interestingly due to having cancer treatement last year I have encountered different views from heathcare professionals so opinion is divided. For me it has helped control my blood sugar with minimal medication and I lost some weight which I am keeping off easily.

 

[porker]

For me the pros and cons are....

Pros
Not too difficult from a hunger point of view
I found natural weight loss close to my ideal weight and consequently feel fitter (I am a snowboarder and definately noticed a difference here)
Far less sugar (almost none) which is a good thing generally
Controls my diabetes blood / sugar. Obviously not an issue for non diabetics

Cons
Miss a lot of carbs which I have completely cut out (Beer, bread (I make a keto substitute), pasta, rice, cakes, biscuits etc.
Fruit has to be limited because it contains a lot of sugar
More expense for food - carbs are cheap food
Need to plan your meals - I want to limit my intake of 'bad' fats but in general you ramp up fat because that is what your body is burning

Some of the things to look into that are the controversial areas
- cholestorol - cholestorol numbers are likley to increase on keto. This area is more complex than high is bad and low is good. You need to look at your hcl and ldl numbers. I'll let you make your own mind up on this as it is a complex area and not as simple as some would have you believe.
- keto is not sustainable - seen a few of the "Sunday magazine" headlines on this but never an explanation as to why. There are people who have done it for decades so maybe there is more to this
- Excessive protein - your protein intake is likley to increase on keto and there is some evidence that this may cause some issues. At the time I was being treated for kidney cancer (before I went keto) I also had a kidney stone. I am wary of these as excessive protein doesn't help. I take some supplements to try to prevent this being an issue.

Recipes
There are plenty of keto recipes out there. Some are great and some are frankly horrible. A few things I changed to are
- Cauliflower rice (cauliflower grated up instead of rice), Courgette in place of pasta (not as bad as it sounds)
- Almond flour for some recipes
- Eggs, Green vegetables, fish, nuts, oat fibre and vital wheat gluten (for bread)
- the odd glass of red wine (no beer)

BTW - My GP is very supportive of my approach and my last HbA1c showed my diabetes effectively in remission.. Whether my next will show the same is to be seen. I have also met other medics who are not supportive of keto.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

- keto is not sustainable - seen a few of the "Sunday magazine" headlines on this but never an explanation as to why. There are people who have done it for decades so maybe there is more to this

I think like most diets it'll work for some and not for others. I think reducing processed carb intake is probably a decent start for anyone wanting to lose weight; I think some people (including me) struggle a bit with really low carb diets. It's all too easy then for a columnist in need of a column to polarise that.

 

[selectortone]

Counting calories is the only truly scientific way to lose weight.

It's simple science: if you burn more calories than you ingest you lose weight, if you ingest more than you burn you put it on.

 

[artie]

Counting calories is the only truly scientific way to lose weight.

It's simple science: if you burn more calories than you ingest you lose weight, if you ingest more than you burn you put it on.

Pretty sure it's not that simple.

But the subject here is Keto

 

[selectortone]

Pretty sure it's not that simple.

But the subject here is Keto

It is that simple.

 

[artie]

It is that simple.

Ok here we go then.
Is it you position that, if I eat 1500 calories of cheese and onion crisps, it will have the exact same effect as if I eat 1500 calories of spinach?

 

[Trainee neophyte]

People are weirdly attached to particular ways of losing weight, and no other method will work - it's suprisingly similar to sharpening techniques. I say do what works for you, but not everyone gets on with the scary sharp system, and some people even use cheap diamond plates from China. You do you.

I was put on the Atkins Diet 20 years ago by my lovely wife (she was the lovely girlfriend at that point), and I remember it being dull and expensive - very much a weird, fad diet. I seem to remember meals consisting of a mountain of chicken legs and broccoli. As someone fully wedded to carbohydrates I was never going to make it a permanent lifestyle choice, and it probably lasted all of three months. As I understand it Keto and Atkins are somewhat interchangeable.

May I recommend The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss (Why Intermittent Fasting Is the Key to Controlling Your Weight): 1: Amazon.co.uk: Fung, Jason, M.D., Noakes, Timothy: 9781771641258: Books

It's a good read, and explains what is going on metabolically and why just reducing calories tends to make you fatter and is for most people completely unsustainable - counterintuitive but there you go.

 

[mikej460]

Cauliflower rice (cauliflower grated up instead of rice)

is as bad as it sounds

 

[selectortone]

Ok here we go then.
Is it you position that, if I eat 1500 calories of cheese and onion crisps, it will have the exact same effect as if I eat 1500 calories of spinach?

Yes. A calorie is a calorie - a unit of energy. It makes no difference where it comes from. Good luck trying to eat 1500 calories of spinach in one sitting though.

(Spinach has 7 calories per ounce so 1500 calories of spinach would be around 13lbs. Good luck with that)

 

[artie]

Yes. A calorie is a calorie - a unit of energy. It makes no difference where it comes from. Good luck trying to eat 1500 calories of spinach in one sitting though.

(Spinach has 7 calories per ounce so 1500 calories of spinach would be around 13lbs. Good luck with that)

You really haven't got a clue.

But if you want to discuss that theory please start your own thread. I started this one to discuss Keto.

 

[Inspector]

is as bad as it sounds

Actually the "rice" is pretty good if you do it right. After a little boil stir fry it with some other chopped veggies and a little Soya or Hoisin sauce or make patties with some grated parmigiana cheese, spices and fry them and you'll be surprised to discover it doesn't taste anything like the boiled cauliflower you are thinking of.

Pete

 

[DavidConnelly]

It looks like we may be going on a keto diet.

SWMBO is looking into it.

Anyone here have any experience?

Don't do it.
A much more natural way to diet is to log exactly what you eat. If you use a free app like "myfitnesspal"

Then you set your age, height and weight. Also the weight you want to be.
You have to honestly log everything you eat. Most things are already on the app. Or you can add particular foods or meals. The app tells you the amount of calories per day you can eat to lose or gain the weight you want.

I lost 10kg over 4 months. And it didn't feel like I wS even dieting.
Honesty is the way to go though. If you tell the app you had a small portion of chips when you really had a fish supper. It just wont work.

 

[Speedy23]

You really haven't got a clue.

But if you want to discuss that theory please start your own thread. I started this one to discuss Keto.

I've got to agree with you artie, I've been on keto diet for 5 years now owing to type 2 diabetes...still maintaining blood sugar at "normal" level, no medication necessary....yet.

The point about "a calorie is a calorie"...well, no, it isn't. I don't really calorie count, yet when I started, I lost a lot (3.5 stone) of weight and I've kept it off. Yet I eat lots of butter, cream, animal fat. My cholesterol is high-ish but the HDL/LDL ratio is very good.

So lots of calories from fat, but don't put on any weight. The point is that when your body is operating in ketosis, you don't metabolise a "calorie's worth" of fat in the same way that a "calorie's worth" of carbohydrate is metabolised.

This, as far as my experience - and the experience of countless others - goes, is what happens.

Not what "should" happen but what DOES happen. Fact demonstrated by empirical evidence.

But I've only got to look at a slice of bread, or a bottle of beer.....

 

[Westwood]

Interesting thread. I went keto three years ago and am very happy with it. Felt so much better and got rid of a couple of conditions I had had for a few years, persistent cough, and excema particularly. 9kg weight loss and flabby tummy went which I was pleased about. Like everything, e.g. woodwork on Youtube there's a lot of rubbish and poor advice out there. I was in a group of 12 with a trained keto "coach" and chef running a course. healthyketolifestyle.com The course was ten weeks - each weekly session started with science and medical facts, and finished with recipes and cooking demos, and a few group meals and exercise sessions. We were told particularly to steer clear of "internet keto". Keto is a commitment and is as much about planning and attitude as anything. Like everything it needs discipline. Its more difficult if like me you are the only one in a household who commits. Exercise and plenty of drinking water are good as well. And a day most weeks of not eating. That is perhaps the biggest commitment to make but once you get used to that, it makes the biggest difference. Planning a fast day can be very satisfying, its great if you work on your own and want a day where you don't have to stop for a couple of meals. Ideal when travelling, no having snack and rubbish food in airports or railway stations etc. I go "off piste" now and then e.g. having a beer at rugby matches. Family gatherings, Christmas lunches etc can be a challenge but its relatively easy to get back to full keto afterwards.
Would I recommend it, definitely but just like woodwork, get help and advice

 

[artie]

A couple of goes;

I've been keto for about 18 months now.

I've got to agree with you artie,

Interesting thread.

Thanks.
It looks like it's happening.
Eggs bacon, mushrooms, tomato, avocado and coffee for breakfast today.

Quite pleasant and filling.
I've been reading up online and as usual there's an abundance of info.

Some recommend no more than 20g of carbs per day, I'm wondering what did you all do, did you count that closely or not. I don't intend to be too strict, at least not initially, just cut out spuds, bread etc, the high carb stuff.
Too much too soon might be counter productive.

Someone mentioned intermittent fasting as well as keto.
My eating window is at present 9/15 I could go to 6/18 without much trouble but don't intend to immediately.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Good luck!

I did count the first time, the second time I knew what came to what.

 

[Greenfellers]

Look up Dr Michael Mosley, he has done lots of research, trialled on himself to sort out being prediabetic and then gone on to develop and refine, also done tv shows abour it. Fast 800 is his diet regime. You can sign up online (for a fee) and have 12 weeks of meal plans, shopping lists and recipes delivered to you on a weekly basis, along wiith access to a group foum, excercise plans and some explanation of the science behind it. Takes the ballsache out of writng menus and shopping lists.
You can tailor the online menus for any number of people and it will update the shopping lists.

Oh, and the meals are pretty good.

Good luck.