Just use the blade guard!

[shed9]

I hate people saying "it is NOT an accident".

All that shows is your ignorance of the meaning of the word.

"Accident" does NOT mean "unpreventable mishap". It means any unintended consequence (usually negative, but not necessarily).

You do know that your retort in claiming ignorance on sometimewoodworker's part only works if you deliberately ignore the context and ironically choose to not understand the word incident yourself, don't you? The HSE specifically and very clearly separates the two aspects of incident and accident. You might want to do some research and know what you are claiming before using words like ignorance particularly against others in a very personal way.

 

[johnbs]

I'm afraid my mantra on machine safety is that I want to see the moving part and hence avoid contact. By see I mean unobstructed view. The only time I've cut myself on a "machine" was a bench drill at work; the chuck guard hinged up to allow access for the key, and I cut myself on the scissor-hinge.

 

[johnbs]

BTW, despite Malcolm's extensive experience and knowledge he still had a horrific accident. There are true accidents which can't be attributed to negligence.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/47...ering-his-hand-in-horrific-woodwork-accident/

 

[JohnPW]

BTW, despite Malcolm's extensive experience and knowledge he still had a horrific accident. There are true accidents which can't be attributed to negligence.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/47...ering-his-hand-in-horrific-woodwork-accident/

The only detail in the article relating to the cause of the injury is:

"Malcolm...described how he was suddenly distracted while operating a circular saw in his workshop",

from that, you can't tell whether there was negligence or not.

 

[TheTiddles]

You do know that your retort in claiming ignorance on sometimewoodworker's part only works if you deliberately ignore the context and ironically choose to not understand the word incident yourself, don't you? The HSE specifically and very clearly separates the two aspects of incident and accident. You might want to do some research and know what you are claiming before using words like ignorance particularly against others in a very personal way.

I think they’re correct. You remove the guards, you intended to have an incident, therefore not an accident. So nice when we all agree

 

[pidgeonpost]

I'm only a hobby woodworker and increasingly use hand tools. This is partly due to the dust risk and partly because in older age there are some bits of me that don't work quite as well as they used to. I'm still quite fond of them though and in no hurry to lose them.
Using machinery less frequently has made me pretty wary when I do use it, but the downside to infrequent use is that it's easy to forget safety advice which might have been ingrained if you were using the machine for several hours a day. My Scheppach table saw has a maximum depth of cut of around 45mm with the guard in place. Not a lot, but usually adequate for my diddly little projects. By removing the guard I gain an extra 15mm of cut - 60mm or 2½" near as dammit, and I must confess that there have been a few, a very few, occasions when I've done just that. It's not something I'd recommend, but 'let him who is without sin cast the first stone' and all that.
Some years ago I was looking for safety leaflets to download from the H&S Executive and came across a report of an accident involving a table saw. It was pretty horrific if I remember correctly. The saw was being operated without the crown guard when an electrician arrived on the scene to investigate a problem with an overhead service of some sort.
The saw operator continued working while the electrician set up his stepladder and climbed up to have a look. At some point he lost his balance or maybe the stepladder shifted, and he fell onto the unprotected and still spinning blade.
It cost him his arm, and I think the saw operator was also injured.
This sort of thing goes through my mind every time I press that green button. Stay safe folks!

 

[akirk]

The saw operator continued working while the electrician set up his stepladder and climbed up to have a look.

In what world does anyone climb up over a spinning blade, and in what world does anyone operating a table saw let someone climb over it?!
There has to be a degree of intelligence in how we operate day to day...

For those referring to HSE - their remit is the workplace, not the private home workshop... it is likely that much of their advice is good, but it must always be taken in that context...

 

[Stanleymonkey]

I have recently acquired a Record RPS 825 table saw

The blade guard is cast metal and very heavy for its size.

because of its weight, it doesn't always move smoothly out the way for sheets of MDF etc. It needs an extra shove to make it lift up. This puts me edge when I'm using the saw and I am wondering if this in normal? I have checked the manual and there are no missing parts etc.

Should I look into replacing it with a lighter guard or is this perfectly normal?

What do you guys think?

 

[Jacob]

I think you are supposed to set it high enough to clear whatever you are cutting. It doesn't rise and fall on it's own - it should go up and down with the saw blade but stay roughly parallel to the table

 

[MARK.B.]

Set your guard 1/4 inch higher than your wood and all should be well , having to shove your timber into a saw blade is not ideal

 

[Ttrees]

Hello, regarding the above post..
I intend to make a proper overhead guard for my machine.
From what I've seen member Heimlaga has made a really good design that is adjusted
via turnwheel.
It this considered a better or worse system for the "best design" one could get made or buy?
Heimlaga's taken some juicy pictures of his, if you click on the link.
Nevermind, I'll just add them here, hopefully Heimlaga won't mind
I'll let you click the link for his other pic of it.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/overhead-table-saw-blade-guard.115782/#post-1268044

 

[TheTiddles]

In what world does anyone climb up over a spinning blade, and in what world does anyone operating a table saw let someone climb over it?!
There has to be a degree of intelligence in how we operate day to day...

For those referring to HSE - their remit is the workplace, not the private home workshop... it is likely that much of their advice is good, but it must always be taken in that context...

The same type of person who tapes on their safety switch of the chainsaw so they can use it one-handed up a ladder balanced on a shed roof... he had a torso and a foot, between it was what has always reminded me of a dropped lasagne.

Dinner time!

Aidan

 

[pidgeonpost]

In what world does anyone climb up over a spinning blade, and in what world does anyone operating a table saw let someone climb over it?!
There has to be a degree of intelligence in how we operate day to day...

For those referring to HSE - their remit is the workplace, not the private home workshop... it is likely that much of their advice is good, but it must always be taken in that context...

It happens in the real world sadly. The first safety notice I remember seeing was as a spotty Herbert in the school metalwork shop. Part of it said 'Some people have been tempted to touch a revolving cutter. Many of them now have only one hand'. It's stuck in my mind ever since.

 

[Spectric]

The saw was being operated without the crown guard when an electrician arrived on the scene to investigate a problem with an overhead service of some sort.

HSE must have had some interesting conversations, the electrician is at fault here because he should have ensured all hazzards were made safe, if not then you just stop. The machine operator at fault for no guard, also for not stopping the electrician from proceeding or working in his area with the machine running and then the boss for failing to ensure PUWER inspections which would have highlighted the missing guard. Ok the operator may have removed it later but then in most places of work the guy would have got a written warning if lucky else been sacked.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I hate people saying "it is NOT an accident".

All that shows is your ignorance of the meaning of the word.

"Accident" does NOT mean "unpreventable mishap". It means any unintended consequence (usually negative, but not necessarily).

Accident is absolutely the wrong word. It shows your ignorance of the difference between accident, “event that occurs by chance”which does not presume that other choices have been made (in this case not following HSE guidelines)
and incident that is “something dependent on or subordinate to something else of greater or principal importance”

The incident that happens because you did not follow best practices that you know of, or are required to know of, outlining by the HSE absolutely, depends on something “of greater or principal importance”
Guards on saws are of greater or principal importance, precisely to prevent incidents of bodily injury.

If you have a guard that is to all appearances and usual tests in good condition that breaks under normal usage and that allows injury while the machine is being operated in an otherwise safe manner, then you can correctly call that an accident.

So do please brush up on your grammar before trying to police your misconceived idea of differences in meaning.

 

[alex_heney]

Accident is absolutely the wrong word. It shows your ignorance of the difference between accident, “event that occurs by chance”which does not presume that other choices have been made (in this case not following HSE guidelines)
and incident that is “something dependent on or subordinate to something else of greater or principal importance”

The incident that happens because you did not follow best practices that you know of, or are required to know of, outlining by the HSE absolutely, depends on something “of greater or principal importance”
Guards on saws are of greater or principal importance, precisely to prevent incidents of bodily injury.

If you have a guard that is to all appearances and usual tests in good condition that breaks under normal usage and that allows injury while the machine is being operated in an otherwise safe manner, then you can correctly call that an accident.

So do please brush up on your grammar before trying to police your misconceived idea of differences in meaning.

So HSE don't know the meaning of the word either.

That is not what the word "Accident" means.

There is no reason to not prefer to use the word incident, that is just as correct, but it is simply incorrect to say that it is "NOT an accident".

Accident certainly includes things that happen by pure chance, that could not have been foreseen or prevented, but the main meaning of the word is just an unintended event or consequence. The fact it was a result of carelessness does not mean it wasn't an accident.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

I think you are supposed to set it high enough to clear whatever you are cutting. It doesn't rise and fall on it's own - it should go up and down with the saw blade but stay roughly parallel to the table

That seems to be the problem - It's just attached to the riving knife with a nut and bolt - the weight of it makes it rest on the surface and there are no springs / mechanisms to make it rise and fall. I've checked the manual and there are no missing parts

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Set your guard 1/4 inch higher than your wood and all should be well , having to shove your timber into a saw blade is not ideal

It is just attached to the riving knife (which isn't easily adjusted) by a bolt. The cover is solid cast metal and just flops down onto the top. I've checked through the manual and there are no missing parts. I'm wondering whether a plastic blade guard would be better.

 

[shed9]

So HSE don't know the meaning of the word either.

That is not what the word "Accident" means.

There is no reason to not prefer to use the word incident, that is just as correct, but it is simply incorrect to say that it is "NOT an accident".

Accident certainly includes things that happen by pure chance, that could not have been foreseen or prevented, but the main meaning of the word is just an unintended event or consequence. The fact it was a result of carelessness does not mean it wasn't an accident.

This not a discussion on our collective understanding of the semantics of incident or accident though, its referencing the HSE's use of the respective terms.

 

[Jacob]

It is just attached to the riving knife (which isn't easily adjusted) by a bolt. The cover is solid cast metal and just flops down onto the top. I've checked through the manual and there are no missing parts. I'm wondering whether a plastic blade guard would be better.

Tighten the bolt to stop it moving. Maybe you need a new nut and bolt and a few washers?