Just a curiosity about infill materials?

[tobytools]

Hi gents.
Just a curious question about infill materials, I've seen some made from ivory, bone ect,
Has any one used marble or granit as an infill? May sound stupid but inwas just wondering?

Cheers
TT

 

[Richard T]

Not an infill material but I remember Andy T came up with an elderly patent application to mould planes from glass a while ago.

Never heard of stone infills though. Hot water bottles, yes. Planes, no.

 

[tobytools]

Lol, I thought so. Just a idea that came to me would add some good weight as look amazing as the finish on some stone looks incredible. My mate is a mason so I'm going to fun the idea to him tomorrow and see if he can make me a front bun just for fun, and see how it turn out. That's if he can do it
TT

 

[AndyT]

Not an infill material but I remember Andy T came up with an elderly patent application to mould planes from glass a while ago.

I don't think any ever got made though.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/never-flatten-a-plane-sole-again-t52701.html

 

[MIGNAL]

What exactly is the point? Wood feels better under the hand and it's probably less likely to break/chip if it's dropped.

 

[tobytools]

What exactly is the point? Wood feels better under the hand and it's probably less likely to break/chip if it's dropped.

In regards of what, marble or the glass?
TT

 

[rafezetter]

I've seen some lovely infill things like abalone shell, that would still be brittle, so granite is not the craziest idea by any means.. and semi precious gemstones like lapis lazuli and malachite have been used in decorating objects other than jewellery for millenia..

 

[Pekka Huhta]

I would say that stone might be beatiful, but it would also be very impractical as an infill material for a smoother plane. It could be useful in smaller infills, for example on a shoulder plane it could be quite brilliant, as the stone would also be protected by the steel sides.

For smoothers and larger panel planes it would be impractical. It is heavy, but there is a certain upper limit for the weight of the plane. You could easily make a smoothing plane which weighs 5-6+ kg. If you would not go over the edge with the weight it could be OK, but it is far too easy to make a plane too heavy. I am finishing a smoother which has 10 mm thick steel sole (with the front part 20 mm) and it starts to be too heavy even with usual wood infills. Filling that with stone... no way.

But the bigger issue that I would consider is that the stone would be quite unpleasant to handle. On cold days the massive stone infills would be cold to the hand for a long time. And when you work for any longer periods, your hands get sweaty and the stone turns slippery under your hands. In that sense wood is a very good handle material, being warm and dry to your hands.

But just give it a try. I would start the experimenting with shoulder planes. In fact I'm quite inspired by the idea....

Pekka

 

[tobytools]

I would say that stone might be beatiful, but it would also be very impractical as an infill material for a smoother plane. It could be useful in smaller infills, for example on a shoulder plane it could be quite brilliant, as the stone would also be protected by the steel sides.

For smoothers and larger panel planes it would be impractical. It is heavy, but there is a certain upper limit for the weight of the plane. You could easily make a smoothing plane which weighs 5-6+ kg. If you would not go over the edge with the weight it could be OK, but it is far too easy to make a plane too heavy. I am finishing a smoother which has 10 mm thick steel sole (with the front part 20 mm) and it starts to be too heavy even with usual wood infills. Filling that with stone... no way.

But the bigger issue that I would consider is that the stone would be quite unpleasant to handle. On cold days the massive stone infills would be cold to the hand for a long time. And when you work for any longer periods, your hands get sweaty and the stone turns slippery under your hands. In that sense wood is a very good handle material, being warm and dry to your hands.


But just give it a try. I would start the experimenting with shoulder planes. In fact I'm quite inspired by the idea....

Pekka

Thanks,
I didn't think it was totally a bad idea. I understand it would be cold but in a war environment it should've a problem or I would imagine so, my friend is a mason and I running the idea through him. I'll ask him to make a coffin type smoother bum and back infill, the finish on some marble or granit kitchen tops or statues is rather breath taking and I would like to see the results in a plane. I know nothing of stone ect but he will know what would be best suited for this.
I'm seeing him on Saturday so ill post what he says.
TT

 

[Racers]

I would think Corian would be good for an infill.

Pete

 

[bugbear]

I would think Corian would be good for an infill.

Pete

IIRC that was done by someone posting on Woodcentral, around 5-8 years ago.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

As a decorative object, fine. As one that functions, I don't see any advantages but I can see a few disadvantages.
If the problem is old it's unlikely that the solution will be new because it's also unlikely that all your ancestors were idiots. Something like that!

 

[tobytools]

As a decorative object, fine. As one that functions, I don't see any advantages but I can see a few disadvantages.
If the problem is old it's unlikely that the solution will be new because it's also unlikely that all your ancestors were idiots. Something like that!

I agree with that statement completely.. but until it's been done it's only opinion.
I will give it a try and if I don't like it or it's just complete junk the I can just put in wood ones so no harm in trying.
Don't get me wrong It would be rediculous to pimp out a joiners infill with stone but a smaller plane might benafit from the added weight. Then again I could be wrong.
I recently saw a plane with a well made aluminum tote and I liked it,!craftsman made but was very pleasing to the eye.
Also I would like to see a brass infill with stell sides and a dovetailed brass sole.
Dreams are free
TT

 

[iNewbie]

How about using Heavy Sand built into a wooden infill case - could even have more than one case and change weights... Just sayin'

Heavy Sand comparison

 

[bugbear]

As a decorative object, fine. As one that functions, I don't see any advantages but I can see a few disadvantages.
If the problem is old it's unlikely that the solution will be new because it's also unlikely that all your ancestors were idiots. Something like that!

I agree with that statement completely.. but until it's been done it's only opinion.

That statement appears to discount the possibilities of thought and analysis being of value.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

Don't worry about it BB. I've thought about it and analysed it. I still fail to see the merit in the idea. Do you?

 

[Pekka Huhta]

If the problem is old it's unlikely that the solution will be new because it's also unlikely that all your ancestors were idiots. Something like that!

I usually think exactly like this: ols problems are best solved with old solutions.

But then again, stone has traditionally been a very difficult material to handle. Power tools, diamonds et cetera have changed this completely. If a traditional master-class stonemason of 18th century would have used several days carving and polishing a stone infill, the same can be done today by any advanced amateur with an angle grinder in a few hours. Well, perhaps it's not exactly that easy, but not much more difficult either.

It certainly isn't a traditional material in this use, but what would be more traditional than stone? Heck, 50 000 years ago we built all of our tools from it (hammer) :wink:

Pekka

 

[tobytools]

If the problem is old it's unlikely that the solution will be new because it's also unlikely that all your ancestors were idiots. Something like that!

I usually think exactly like this: ols problems are best solved with old solutions.

But then again, stone has traditionally been a very difficult material to handle. Power tools, diamonds et cetera have changed this completely. If a traditional master-class stonemason of 18th century would have used several days carving and polishing a stone infill, the same can be done today by any advanced amateur with an angle grinder in a few hours. Well, perhaps it's not exactly that easy, but not much more difficult either.

It certainly isn't a traditional material in this use, but what would be more traditional than stone? Heck, 50 000 years ago we built all of our tools from it (hammer) :wink:

Pekka

Well said,
TT

 

[Richard T]

Maybe a successful stone infilled plane would be:

Smaller than your average smoother, say 1 - 1/2" or narrower iron.

Not too hefty steel/bronze. 1/8" sides and 1/4" ish sole eg.. so the weight is in the stone and not the metal.

Parallel, not coffin. I can't imagine trying to make the plane to fit the infill and it would have to be that way around unless your mason buddy was happy to fettle the stone to the plane. A straight sided infill/plane requires just one measurement of width to stick to.

Have you thought about how you would fix them in?

I think it's possible but I would start with wood if I were you. 8)

 

[tobytools]

Thanks Richard.
I was just going to give home the plane a let him play. That's even if he can sort it as he's doing it at leisure. So could take him a while lazy sod.
I'm going to start the process of getting the old one out tomorrow. Then I'll have a go at making one out of some wood I have about the place.
If I don't get it right then ill just try again till I'm happy with it.
I'm not going for any fancy patters or designs.
TT