Jointer plane, new Chinese ones...

[BenCviolin]

Hi,
Looking at the new Chinese size 7 jointers...is there a consensus on which is 'best' ?
Can't afford a Clifton or LN, prefer bedrock to bailey.
I see one has a brass frog, another has a nice brushed stainless lever cap.
7 or 8 would do the job but want to choose the right one...quality wise.

A.
http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Qua ... Plane.html
B.
http://www.fine-tools.com/eputz6.html
Many thanks.
(just did another search of this site and found good info on Luban planes. )

 

[memzey]

They look very nice but seem quite expensive for what they are. Have you considered a vintage, used Stanley? There are always a number available on the bay and if you get a nice old one in decent condition I'd bet it would work at least as well as any of those. Take my number 7 as a case in point:

120+ years old, cost a fraction of those you linked to and a joy to use.

 

[BenCviolin]

Thanks for the photo memzey, looks like a nice one but not many of those in rural S.W. Ireland and postage is a killer.
Actually I wanted a new one partly because the thicker blade but mainly to get a flat sole.
I have a Bailey 7 which 'sort of works' and yes I've flattened it.

Likely I'll go for the Dictum one (cheaper) because I can combine postage costs with other stuff
but the one from Schmid looks very nice.
Tried a low angle jack but really don't like the low angle thing much.

 

[memzey]

Well that's fair enough Ben. The QS from Workshop Heaven looks nice too. Good luck with whichever one you go for. I hope it meets your needs.

 

[adidat]

Whilst I don't own a qs no.7 i have some of there other items and they are excellent value, and work very well the blades take a great edge!

Workshop heaven is a very good shop the owner is a member here as well!

adidat

 

[John15]

WoodRiver have had good right-ups and are definitely worth looking at. http://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/epages ... /WoodRiver.

John

 

[ED65]

Looking at the new Chinese size 7 jointers...is there a consensus on which is 'best' ?
...
7 or 8 would do the job but want to choose the right one...quality wise.

These are all sure to pass the 'good enough' mark, but come to that so would a Faithfull for only £36 and free postage.

thicker blade

Thought about getting an old woodie?

...but mainly to get a flat sole. I have a Bailey 7 which 'sort of works' and yes I've flattened it.

Flat enough should be flat enough for a 7, to the point where you don't even need to check them with a straightedge. Just sight down the sole and if it looks flat that'll do.

BTW, in a metal-bodied plane the thicker blade won't improve performance over a thinner blade! Even if it's harder as well (modern irons often will be) in general what you'd get is an increased interval between sharpenings, not a jump in performance per se, unless you're working particularly hard woods as a matter of course.

 

[shed9]

Flat enough should be flat enough for a 7, to the point where you don't even need to check them with a straightedge. Just sight down the sole and if it looks flat that'll do.

BTW, in a metal-bodied plane the thicker blade won't improve performance over a thinner blade! Even if it's harder as well (modern irons often will be) in general what you'd get is an increased interval between sharpenings, not a jump in performance per se, unless you're working particularly hard woods as a matter of course.

Have to disagree here ED65, a visual check for straightness in a No 7 is not sufficient in my opinion, given it's role in life. The sole needs to be as flat as you can make it and you'd be surprised how much error can be incurred with simple eye sight.

As for thicker blades, they do give performance other than fewer sharpening intervals, they decrease chatter in all woods and are less likely to clog between the blade itself and the cap.

Just my opinion and experience of course.

 

[Corneel]

As chatter is not a problem in Bailey style planes, a thicker blade can't improve matters in that respect. A thinner blade has the advantage of being quicker to sharpen.

 

[shed9]

As chatter is not a problem in Bailey style planes, a thicker blade can't improve matters in that respect. A thinner blade has the advantage of being quicker to sharpen.

Admittedly, the Bailey design is less susceptible than other designs to chatter but it still occurs to varying degrees dependent on the condition of the plane, the type and condition of the wood and the user themselves.

I agree it's not really such an issue that it becomes a problem and original thin blades are perfectly serviceable. My point was that in my humble and limited experience that thicker blades do offer an advantage beyond the need to sharpening less frequently.

My opinion clearly doesn't trump any one else's, just me experience based on the tools I have.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Looking at the new Chinese size 7 jointers...is there a consensus on which is 'best' ?
...
7 or 8 would do the job but want to choose the right one...quality wise.

These are all sure to pass the 'good enough' mark, but come to that so would a Faithfull for only £36 and free postage.

I'd be a tad wary of Faithfull planes. I'm sure there are good ones out there, but my number 3 was not one of them. It required quite a bit of work to make it 'reasonable'. Faults included a sole hollow in length by 6 thou (it would take a thick shaving, but not a fine finishing one), a frog that seated at the front edge and on the flange of the frog adjusting screw (cured by putting the said screw in a lathe and taking 1mm off the OD), fixing screws that were loose to their female threads, and a cap-iron slot for the adjuster tab that wasn't central. The wooden handle and knob were quite nice, though.

The plane cost me £17 including VAT and delivery, so on that basis could reasonably be said to be value for money, but as a work-out-of-the-box plane, it failed miserably, I'm afraid.

 

[Corneel]

There are two different things. Real chatter and skipping at the start of the cut. The latter is a matter of technique. Putting weight on the plane in the right spots, starting the stroke with just the right amount of force and speed. Skewing helps a lot too. The latter is a problem with the plane and is worse with thicker cuts. No amount of technique from the user is going to help there. Usually a bedding problem or a problem with the capiron or the wedge in a wooden plane. My wooden jack has this problem, I need to check it over to see what causes the problem. Only with very thick shaving though. And this plane has a 4 mm thick iron plus a 2.5 mm thick capiron!

The Bailey planes, even modern badly produced ones don't have this chatter problem. You can take shavings thick enough to pull yourself out of your socks, but you won't see the typical chatter marks further into the board then just the start of the cut.

 

[BenCviolin]

Yes, the Bailey will take tissue shavings and it works quite well generally.
It's an 80's chrome lever cap, got mine in Newark market 20 years ago, it works well enough for what it is.

The new Chinese ones are made to finer tolerances and the modern blades apparently better steel than Tungsten Vanadium.
Tighter adjustment tolerances and a really flat sole would make my life easier, and for £200 I think that's a bargain.

Yes I've seen some very 'accomplished' wood workers like Paul Sellers use old Bailey planes but then he
also has a collection of modern ones too....and why would he own those if he didn't use them ?

 

[MIGNAL]

Probably because he runs a school and teaches. I'm not sure he does own them, were 'gifts' or were purchased out of the 'school' budget. That's a completely different position to your average amateur or other professional type woodworker.
Anyway, the Quangsheng type are very good IMO, as are the older Stanley/Record if you are prepared to put in a bit of work. Even my modern Stanley SW was producing tissue shavings in Birds eye Maple, giving a super polished finish. If you've ever tried to plane birds eye you'll know just how tricky it can be.

 

[Vann]

As chatter is not a problem in Bailey style planes...

That's a bit of a broad statement isn't it Corneel?

There are a variety of Bailey designs...

..does that apply to all of them?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[D_W]

As chatter is not a problem in Bailey style planes, a thicker blade can't improve matters in that respect. A thinner blade has the advantage of being quicker to sharpen.

Admittedly, the Bailey design is less susceptible than other designs to chatter but it still occurs to varying degrees dependent on the condition of the plane, the type and condition of the wood and the user themselves.

I agree it's not really such an issue that it becomes a problem and original thin blades are perfectly serviceable. My point was that in my humble and limited experience that thicker blades do offer an advantage beyond the need to sharpening less frequently.

My opinion clearly doesn't trump any one else's, just me experience based on the tools I have.

I haven't had any bailey plane chatter in the last three years...or I guess maybe it's four now. But without the cap iron set properly, they will chatter and zipper through a cut.

(I'm not against new irons, I'm more agnostic about it. I just haven't run into one yet that I couldn't get good results out of - some just have to be sharpened more than others, but some of the hardest ones have been chippy at the same time....and one example (ohio tool) has been both soft and chippy.)

 

[MarkDennehy]

Thanks for the photo memzey, looks like a nice one but not many of those in rural S.W. Ireland

...actually, there's at least one chap in Wexford who restores them as a hobby and sells them on adverts. And charges six to ten euro in postage. If you search for workbenches in adverts.ie you'll find his account.

(No, it's not me )

 

[BenCviolin]

Nice old planes, Vann.
Some of the new bedrock planes also have adjustable mouths, perhaps they chatter less lol.

 

[Vann]

Nice old planes, Vann.

Them's not mine :!: That pikke is borrowed from Patrick's Blood & Gore - where he chronicals the stages of Bailey bench plane developement.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[ED65]

Have to disagree here ED65, a visual check for straightness in a No 7 is not sufficient in my opinion, given it's role in life. The sole needs to be as flat as you can make it and you'd be surprised how much error can be incurred with simple eye sight.

Yes fair points, but not everyone uses their 7 in the same way, and for some flat enough can work fine.

As for thicker blades, they do give performance other than fewer sharpening intervals, they decrease chatter in all woods and are less likely to clog between the blade itself and the cap.

Corneel beat me to it but my answer to that would be what a few here and Paul Sellers all say: what chatter?

Sorry could you explain how iron thickness relates to clogging? That's a new one on me.