Japanese Saws vs. Western Saws

[David C]

Rod,

Nice old Railway curves very exciting.

I was sent an excellent set of ship's curves by a knife maker in south africa.

best wishes,
David

PS The answers (or to be more precise my answers) to many questions asked on this forum are in my books, but I'm not clear how often I can say this without becoming too boring & repetetive!

www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

 

[engineer one]

it may well be true that the answers are in your books and dvds david, and we are all pleased about that :lol:

however woodwork can be a lonely job and without this kind of communication who knows how nutty we might all get.

in addition some of your answers may be contentious to some, and more demanding than others of us want to be :roll: :?

if one is relearning late in life, the questions you have to ask are often ones which may be when viewed in the cold light of day simply answered, but when it is late at night and you don't know where to go, this forum offers the friendly arm around the shoulder and a helping hand.

your own contribution is always useful and aposite, so i am certainly grateful that you take the time and trouble to check in and answer things which may be covered elsewhere.

i do the occassional beta testing on a couple of computer programmes, and inevitably what i find goes wrong is the simple things which are often modified to make the programme bigger better etc are stuffed up without thought. i think the same happens here in woodworking. :roll:

whilst all our problems might be easily solved, rather like my shooting board one, until you air it and then get an explanation, mere words on a page may not be enough to clear your mind.

when working on a project it is often easy to get overwhelmed by the problems that you seem to miss the obvious, which is where this forum really does help.

paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

snip
PS The answers (or to be more precise my answers) to many questions asked on this forum are in my books,

Rather a bold claim David :lol: are we all wasting our time?

but I'm not clear how often I can say this without becoming too boring & repetetive!

No comment :shock:
cheers
Jacob
PS is there an advertising policy of any sort on this forum?

 

[Javier]

Rod,

PS The answers (or to be more precise my answers) to many questions asked on this forum are in my books, but I'm not clear how often I can say this without becoming too boring & repetetive!

www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

I recently bought two of Dave's books. They're mostly articles from a British Woodworking mag.
Great tips on hand tool use. If I win the lottery I'm gonna fly across the pond and take a few of his
courses.

 

[Frank D.]

Great tips on hand tool use. If I win the lottery I'm gonna fly across the pond and take a few of his courses.

Ditto. David's first two books probably had a greater influence on my woodworking than all other books I've read combined.

 

[David C]

Jacob,

I suspect you would not like them because they provide methods for solving problems and difficulties which you do not seem to have.

Yes it is a bold statement which I am quite happy to stand by and the only way you would find out is to try them.

As they say, "why not suck it and see"

best wishes as always,

David Charlesworth

 

[Anonymous]

I've read your "Furniture-Making techniques".
Quirky and interesting yes, but comprehensive most definitely not. Very little use to a beginner I'd have to say, and covers very little ground, and in an idiosyncratic way. Hardly any basics at all but a lot of top-end or obscure tool stuff, and unusual joints.
Basically a rag bag of magazine articles. Interesting and worth having nonetheless.
Compare and contrast Joyces similarly titled "The Technique of Furniture Making".

cheers
Jacob

 

[bugbear]

and in an idiosyncratic way

Is that similar to opinionated?

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

and in an idiosyncratic way

Is that similar to opinionated?

BugBear

Fairly close I suppose :lol:
In general I wouldn't use either word pejoratively

cheers
Jacob

 

[Harbo]

Wow - I sadly did not intend to trigger off a flurry here about David's books.

I found them to be quite interesting especially as they cover quite a number of topics that have been raised recently on this Forum - and at £7/copy inc. postage, a bargain IMHO?" I do not think they are meant to be a Woodworker's "Bible" though?
Sadly Ernest Joyce's "The Technique of Furniture Making" is only available used at £30 - though I have read that his Encyclopedia has the same content?

One thing that did concern me though was a photo of David wearing sandals in his workshop - I am sure they were steel toed versions? Chisels and other tools falling on bare toes - Ouch!! 8-[

Rod

 

[ByronBlack]

Very little use to a beginner I'd have to say, and covers very little ground

I'm a beginner, and Davids books have helped me in many many ways. I agree that a lot of the questions on this forum (particularly the hand tools sub-forum) are indeed answered in his books. As usual, you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about David and hisbooks - which is a shame because i'm sure you could learn a thing or two from his books like all of us who read them.

 

[woodbloke]

Harbo wrote:

David wearing sandals in his workshop

Rod- flop-flops now summers here :lol: Paul Chapman lent me one of Davids books which I found good. Some of it was reprints from F&C (of which I have every copy) and some was new stuff (iIrc) that I hadn't seen before. Presentation was excellent in it, tho' as Mr Grim has said, not comprehensive. I was sufficiently impressed to want to put it, and others, on my book/tool list of things that Father Christmas might want to leave in my stocking on Christmas Eve, 'specially if I leave a finger or three of malt out and a mince pie just before the wooden hill :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Sadly Ernest Joyce's "The Technique of Furniture Making" is only available used at £30

Excellent book - covers virtually everything and very nicely written and illustrated. Not sure where you are looking, Rod, but keep a lookout elsewhere - I picked up a copy from Pennyfarthing Tools for £12-50 recently. Probably the best £12-50 I've ever spent

I think David Charlesworth's books are excellent as well. He only covers the sort of stuff that he does, but sometimes one particular tip can be worth the price of the book :wink: I find his stuff on scrapers, tearout and things like that particularly useful. It's the sort of thing that's not covered in any great depth by other people, yet can be very important because it has such a big effect on the final look of the piece.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[engineer one]

rod, think you will need to leave a larger finger than that out :lol: :twisted:

were you nearer you could borrow my copy of joyce which i have just gone through again. :roll:

i think that the differences are that david makes his living in the furniture and cabinet business which tends to be more involved with care being taken, and indoor working. jacob seems to spend more time on site, and many consider such work does not need the same accuracy :?

the other real consideration is when and how you learnt. us old pippers tended to have been taught some basic techiniques by either a teacher, or during an apprenticeship. or even by dad, and we learnt most forms of diy skills as well as mechanical skills on cars available in the 60's maestros anyone??? :twisted: sadly fewer kids get to learn early enough. thus the need to ask simple questions, and not be too sure about taking advice from acknowledged experts because it seems too complicated.

i find david's advice useful and interesting to follow, whilst jacob's pithy comments often show a lack of understanding for the aim to improve the craftsmanship.

my 2 p :roll:
paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

snip
As usual, you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about David and hisbooks - which is a shame because i'm sure you could learn a thing or two from his books like all of us who read them.

Hey Byron this is becoming a habit. First its "feeling bitter" about Krenov - completely wrong, I'm even buying the old twerp's book (not come yet).
Now its having "a bit of a chip" about the aforementioned. Not true, no chips here - I've bought the book even*, and read it :shock: Anyway he's fairly assertive about his self promotional activities which is OK by me, but does entitle me (and you) to have different points of view.
The thing is that people arrive at woodwork by many different routes, and some of us haven't followed the usual path as found on this group (magazines, catalogues, personalities etc) and we all have something to learnand to contribute.

cheers
Jacob
* £2.50 + pp on Abebooks

 

[ByronBlack]

But Jacob - you seem to berate your opinions about the head of anyone who has a different technique or experience (usually a modern non-joyce slant) and generally show a great deal lack of respect e.g. 'twerp'.

And David is usually quite forthright and concise in his contributions to this forum with very little in the way of advertising unlike some others that I shall not name, so to accuse of this is a little unfair. We are lucky to have such a wide range of esteemed members (and I have to include you in that as well).

I'm all for different points of view Jacob as long as it doesn't always have to antagonise, disrespect or generally try to lower the standing of an individual as so often happens.

 

[Anonymous]

snip
jacob seems to spend more time on site, and many consider such work does not need the same accuracy :? snip

Hey Paul - you obviously haven't noticed that accuracy is one thing I go on about a lot in many posts; extolling the virtues of the "rod system" which is about accuracy above all. Accuracy is something I really bother about and is essential for the sort of work I do.
You are confusing accuracy with "precision". Have to be careful here the dictionary** boys may be lurking!
OK so an ET* can produce a shaving precisely 1 micron thin, but this could be at the same time be innaccurate by 5 inches if he has cut stuff to the wrong length. It's a very common confusion. "Precision" is as appropriate to the job in hand.
Incidentally the rod system is quite free and you can't buy it, which may dismay many, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody somewhere is working on a brass knob encrusted "rod" device :lol:

cheers
Jacob
*ET = those of the "Engineering Tendency"
** "Long Words for Woodworkers" Batsford 1872

 

[engineer one]

jacob, that works for me.
i agree with the difference between accuracy, and precision.

but my analogy is that one is to do with making something work in an existing situation, whilst the other is being made from scratch so needs a different view.

however the old maxim, measure twice cut once is very valid :lol:

and your knowledge of restoration is really valuable

paul :wink:

 

[Harbo]

Getting back to the original thread, my Sunchild arrived this afternoon from Thanet tools - £28.50 inc. postage.
It's made by Gyokucho and has "Razorsaw" printed on the blade but "Sunchild" on the packaging - 20TPI and looks like crosscut teeth?

The Gyokuchos from Workshopheavan are similar but 17 TPI.

Rod

 

[David C]

Harbo,

Hope you like it.

Please let us know what you think.

David C

Somewhat bemused to see that Amazon currently do not have Joyce.
Indispensible encyclopaedia for the serious furniture maker. I would not dream of pretending to compete with this mighty tome. Paperback version ought to be available somewhere for less than £30, and I would expect it to be reprinted soon.