Japanese plane blades from Dick

[dh7892]

Hi,

This is my first post but I have been lurking for a few weeks and this seems like a very informative forum.

I'm pretty new to woodworking and my particular interest is in guitar building but I'd be happy to turn my hand to other tasks as and when I get the opportunity/need.

So, my question: has anyone here had any experience with the japanese plane blades from Dick. I'm thinking about making a wooden jointer plane from a long bit of maple that is left over from my current guitar build and I really like the look of the Japanese style blades with metal pin rather than a wooden block to hold the blade.

Any comments on these blades would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[bugbear]

So, my question: has anyone here had any experience with the japanese plane blades from Dick. I'm thinking about making a wooden jointer plane from a long bit of maple that is left over from my current guitar build and I really like the look of the Japanese style blades with metal pin rather than a wooden block to hold the blade.


Thanks

Using a pin (and wedge) to hold the blade (as opposed to a wedge in abutments, or a lever cap) is not particularly Japanese. The Romans did it, and so does the well known "Krenov" plane design.

BugBear

 

[dh7892]

Sure, I probably didn't really explain myself well. I included the bit about the pin so that people would know which type of Japanese blades I was talking about since the page on Dick's website includes "Japanese" blades that are shaped in the more usual western style with a slot for the chip breaker screw.

I'm not really sure why I've got it in my head to try one like that since I'm not really planing to make a Japanese style pull plane but I just prefer the shape of these blades (going by looks only).

Since I've never used one, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if they're any good.

 

[Harbo]

Generally when you buy a Japanese plane you have fit the blade to the plane which entails some very careful chiselling - the blade is actually gripped by the side channel and the pin is really only gripping the cap iron.
You also have to trim the sole to leave just a few proud areas - these depend on the type of plane. Generally a very slight hollow between the toe and mouth and mouth to heel?

Rod

 

[dh7892]

Since I'm planning to make the plane to fit the iron, I imagine that I would be aming for a good fit anyway but I hadn't realised that making sure that the blade is held by the sides of the plane was so important with these blades so thanks for that.

From what I've seen about making wooden planes, the usual idea is to make them so that the mouth is a little too small for the blade to get through. You then make sure that the sole is flat (in doing this, you will remove material from the sole and hence may open up the mouth a bit). When this is done, you then remove enough excess from the mouth until you can get the blade through with the required clearance. Is this right?

Why is it that the soles are not completely flat? I assumed that the flatter the better.

 

[woodbloke]

dh7892 wrote:

From what I've seen about making wooden planes, the usual idea is to make them so that the mouth is a little too small for the blade to get through. You then make sure that the sole is flat (in doing this, you will remove material from the sole and hence may open up the mouth a bit). When this is done, you then remove enough excess from the mouth until you can get the blade through with the required clearance. Is this right?

Why is it that the soles are not completely flat? I assumed that the flatter the better.

This is the generally accepted way of making the mouth the correct size, I use a piece of 150g paper stuck to some float glass and then gradually remove sole material by passing the plane over it (cutter in place but backed off) until the mouth is correct for the type of plane being made...this technique doesn't work very well though if a separate sole is used, then somat different needs to be done.
Jap planes are traditionally made this way with three POC's as Rod described and a slight hollow between them, European planes are made with a flat sole - Rob

 

[dh7892]

this technique doesn't work very well though if a separate sole is used

Why? Because you might sand through the sole?

Any advantages to the 3POC type compared with a flat sole? Less friction?

 

[woodbloke]

this technique doesn't work very well though if a separate sole is used

Why? Because you might sand through the sole?

Any advantages to the 3POC type compared with a flat sole? Less friction?

With a separate sole, you need to work out geometrically (using an accurate scale working drawing) exactly where the iron will break thru' to form the front of the mouth. It's much easier then to fit a separate little sole piece in front of cutter and gradually shoot this back a little at a time until the right mouth is obtained. The technique sounds complicated but isn't really. The advantage of using a separate sole (and I make all my planes this way) is that a very heavy and hard sole wood can be joined to a much more easily worked timber for the main body. Fwiw, there will be an article coming out in the Aug issue of F&C showing how this is done.
Friction is the main reason for three POCs in Jap planes - Rob

 

[dh7892]

Thanks for the info.

Any comments on these actual blades anyone?

 

[pam niedermayer]

...
I'm not really sure why I've got it in my head to try one like that since I'm not really planing to make a Japanese style pull plane but I just prefer the shape of these blades (going by looks only).

Since I've never used one, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if they're any good.

Don't know about the Dick blades, but real Japanese irons in real Japanese dai work real good; however, don't count on getting by on looks alone, it's very tricky getting to a real Japanese plane.

Pam

 

[bugbear]

Thanks for the info.

Any comments on these actual blades anyone?

Only indirectly; on the assumption that this is your first plane-make, go to a car boot, buy a wooden plane with a blade in (should be well under a fiver), and make your plane using that blade, before trying something exotic.

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

I have a Japanese smoothing plane and another spare Japanese plane blade - both from Dick.
The plane and blades work very well however they are designed to fit Japanese planes and have a completely different profile to western style ones.
They are tapered in all planes, hollow ground and have small chamfers at the blade ends. As I said previously, they are secured by their sides - the pin is there only to secure the much narrower chip breaker.
I really think if you are going to make a western style plane then buy a western style plane iron - there are generally lots of woody types ones for sale on Ebay.
If you can lay your hands on one, have a read of Toshio Odate's excellent book "Japanese Woodworking Tools" - there's a chapter on planes.

Rod

 

[dh7892]

OK, thanks for all the advice.

I fully agree that I should try somehting a bit simpler (and cheaper) for my first plane. I'll definitely do that.

Sounds like the Jap style blades a a bit further removed from our local typs than I though so I should either try to learn to make proper Japanese planes or use a Western iron.

Cheers.

 

[Digit]

This help dh?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_jo ... 73456.html

Roy.

 

[dh7892]

Yes, that's a very good article. I've actually read it before and is kind of my inspiration for wanting to make one. I think I might end up going for the Hock type blades in the end, like they use in that link (after practicing on some cheapy ones first).

Dave

 

[Harbo]

Ray Isles does plane irons - probably cheaper than the Hock ones?

http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/spares.htm

Rod

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks for the info.

Any comments on these actual blades anyone?

Only indirectly; on the assumption that this is your first plane-make, go to a car boot, buy a wooden plane with a blade in (should be well under a fiver), and make your plane using that blade, before trying something exotic.

BugBear

You could well end up with something exotic anyway. I bet Philly would!

John