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Ivermectin - Cheap and Probably Effective

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RobinBHM

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drastically reducing the severity of infection.
I cant find evidence to back that up

The U.K. government has refused to licence its use in COVID-19 cases.
refused is a strong word -more like it cant because it hasnt been tested and deemed safe.

however when there is that much smoke it’s reasonable to assume there is a fire unless there is absolute proof there is no fire.
Based on what?

vaccines were always the way out of this pandemic.

they were always going to be developed whether there were useful therapeutic drugs or not.

I cant see any reason why pharmas or govt would bother suppressing research into Ivormectin -it makes no logical sense


I can see D_W makes a very good point: Ivermectin could be useful in poor countries if it proves effective -and there should be more trials.
 

Cabinetman

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I've lost track, so don't know if the following has been linked. It is a metastudy of various studies on Ivermectin with quite a lot of commentary to go with it.

Absolutely fascinating, worth reading all the comments at the end as well, my fears are not just my own by the look of things.
 

sometimewoodworker

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refused is a strong word -more like it cant because it hasnt been tested and deemed safe.
Refused is the correct word. The safety testing is extremely extensive and goes back many many years. The U.K. has not trialed it in COVID and probably will not. They have refused to accept the meta analysis for ivermectin (they do accept meta analytics for other drugs) ivermectin has been trialed against Covid and is currently being used in India on a prophylactic basis. At worst it would do nothing against the disease (but that isn’t happening) and protect against parasites

japan is so badly behind other advanced countries because it would not accept trial data from other countries and insisted on doing its own trials.

the blind insistence on we haven’t tested X ourselves so will not accept that X can work until we trial it is ridiculously parochial and dangerous.

No governments should not blindly accept foreign information but neither should they blindly refuse to look at it.



From over a month ago


From 2 months ago



 
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sometimewoodworker

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The look on the face in the final one is great, - other than that, YouTube as evidence of anything is pointless. Tube will become the name for a gullible mug.
The evidence doesn’t come from YouTube I would never use a YouTube video (or Wikipedia) as evidence.

If you bothered to watch any of the videos rather than just snark you would see that they summarise the evidence published by a whole lot of government and mostly peer reviewed academic publications.

It seems that you can’t bother to understand that you need to research sources and that while there is dross (quite a lot I agree) there are also gems of reliable information available.

So yes the the information is presented as a video, yes it’s on YouTube, but the gullible mug or as a minimum lazy mug is not named Jerome but the initial is probably a J ;)
 
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Keith Cocker

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No it is not.

Unless you have proof, the UK has not refused.
The videos are opinion not fact.
The guy in the videos describes himself as a “Doctor” in the Experience section of his LinkedIn profile. If you then look at his qualifications he is clearly not a “Doctor” as he hasn’t studied and qualified. He is, in fact a nurse who has a PhD in Nurse Education. I’m sure he means well but......
 

Terry - Somerset

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Covid has provided an opportunity for many to achieve personal visibility (egos at work) which would otherwise not be possible.

This is similar to other areas of scientific endeavour where "experts", often with dubious credibilty, put forward marginal (at best) theories.
Obvious comparison could be made with the environmental and climate change debates.

I just don't know if the Ivermectin "cure" is an example of this -

Even if in Europe and the US existing pharma is preventing properly conducted trials to protect their earnings, other parts of the world are entirely capable of conducting trials to properly accepted standards.

It does not need to rely upon small scale "experiments" that are not scientifically credible. So I question why no wholly credible evidence or trial has taken place - perhaps because effectiveness would not be proven?
 

D_W

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The guy in the videos describes himself as a “Doctor” in the Experience section of his LinkedIn profile. If you then look at his qualifications he is clearly not a “Doctor” as he hasn’t studied and qualified. He is, in fact a nurse who has a PhD in Nurse Education. I’m sure he means well but......
The studies that he references aren't that difficult to understand. We have a couple of MDs over here if that's what you need. They include docs who pushed for the acceptance of dexamethasone as a regular routine covid treatment.
 

D_W

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Covid has provided an opportunity for many to achieve personal visibility (egos at work) which would otherwise not be possible.

This is similar to other areas of scientific endeavour where "experts", often with dubious credibilty, put forward marginal (at best) theories.
Obvious comparison could be made with the environmental and climate change debates.

I just don't know if the Ivermectin "cure" is an example of this -

Even if in Europe and the US existing pharma is preventing properly conducted trials to protect their earnings, other parts of the world are entirely capable of conducting trials to properly accepted standards.

It does not need to rely upon small scale "experiments" that are not scientifically credible. So I question why no wholly credible evidence or trial has taken place - perhaps because effectiveness would not be proven?
The Indian trial is actually a field trial of over 3,000 health care workers. Much of the study work on ivermectin so far has been for viral clearance in combination with other drugs. I doubt it will show much there, but it's mechanism is to prevent viral replication, not to kill the virus as I understand it. If I were a U.S. health official, I'd be contacting the producers of the Indian study to see if I could poke holes in their selected groups. If I couldn't find any, then I'd be looking to replicate the results in a cohort in the U.S. that's refused the vaccine.
 

sometimewoodworker

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The guy in the videos describes himself as a “Doctor” in the Experience section of his LinkedIn profile. If you then look at his qualifications he is clearly not a “Doctor” as he hasn’t studied and qualified. He is, in fact a nurse who has a PhD in Nurse Education. I’m sure he means well but......
You clearly don’t understand that the prefix doctor applies to those who have a doctorate, abbreviated as PhD, or doctor of philosophy as much as it applies to a doctor on the medical register of the General Medical Council
Even the BMA has a section on the subject pointing out that the title Dr doesn’t specifically mean the holder has medical training.
So he is absolutely correct in referring to himself as Dr Campbell. If you bother to watch any of the videos you would know he makes no claims of being a medical doctor, but then you would not be able to poo poo the information he presents.
 

sometimewoodworker

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I just don't know if the Ivermectin "cure" is an example of this -
I don’t know anyone claiming that Ivermectin is a cure. It’s a prophylactic reducing severity of possible infection and many be helpful in very early stage infection in reducing its severity.

It absolutely is not a cure. It absolutely doesn’t prevent infection. It is showing that it reduces requirements for hospitalisation in infected individuals as well as severity of infection.
 
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Keith Cocker

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You clearly don’t understand that the prefix doctor applies to those who have a doctorate, abbreviated as PhD, or doctor of philosophy as much as it applies to a doctor on the medical register of the General Medical Council
Even the BMA has a section on the subject pointing out that the title Dr doesn’t specifically mean the holder has medical training.
So he is absolutely correct in referring to himself as Dr Campbell. If you bother to watch any of the videos you would know he makes no claims of being a medical doctor, but then you would not be able to poo poo the information he presents.
Thanks very much! Actually, I do understand since I myself have a PhD and I am refered to on occasions as Dr Cocker. My PhD is in History. My friend Maria is also called Dr S.... But she IS a Doctor. She spent 6 years as a medical student. Has MB. Chb and is a Fellow of her Royal College. . Dr Campbell is entitled to refer to himself as Dr Campbell just as I can refer to myself as Dr Cocker. BUT he is not entitled to infer in his Linkedin profile that he is a "Doctor". Attached is a screenshot of his profile on Linkedin.
 

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Rorschach

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Thanks very much! Actually, I do understand since I myself have a PhD and I am refered to on occasions as Dr Cocker. My PhD is in History. My friend Maria is also called Dr S.... But she IS a Doctor. She spent 6 years as a medical student. Has MB. Chb and is a Fellow of her Royal College. . Dr Campbell is entitled to refer to himself as Dr Campbell just as I can refer to myself as Dr Cocker. BUT he is not entitled to infer in his Linkedin profile that he is a "Doctor". Attached is a screenshot of his profile on Linkedin.
Yes he is, because is a Doctor, Dr, PhD. He is not entitled to say he is an MD though.
 

D_W

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Thanks very much! Actually, I do understand since I myself have a PhD and I am refered to on occasions as Dr Cocker. My PhD is in History. My friend Maria is also called Dr S.... But she IS a Doctor. She spent 6 years as a medical student. Has MB. Chb and is a Fellow of her Royal College. . Dr Campbell is entitled to refer to himself as Dr Campbell just as I can refer to myself as Dr Cocker. BUT he is not entitled to infer in his Linkedin profile that he is a "Doctor". Attached is a screenshot of his profile on Linkedin.
Perhaps you could address the stuff he talks about instead of attempting to put notches in his knees.

Here in the states, and probably there, you can call yourself Doctor if you have a doctorate. We have a first lady who wants to be called Doctor, though I haven't seen her address any patients or do any research. Actually, that's quite popular here, for Ed. D people to demand to be called doctor. I guess they get coked up on being around teachers all day and get big fish syndrome.

The disease also exists with MDs, though, who want you to refer to them as doctor in social settings. "OH, but you can call me Eileen...please, I insist". (Don't worry, I was going to call you Eileen whether you like it or not, you're not my doctor).

Doctor doesn't mean anything here. MD or Medical Doctor has a very specific meaning.
 

Rorschach

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The disease also exists with MDs, though, who want you to refer to them as doctor in social settings. "OH, but you can call me Eileen...please, I insist". (Don't worry, I was going to call you Eileen whether you like it or not, you're not my doctor).

Doctor doesn't mean anything here. MD or Medical Doctor has a very specific meaning.
I've got a friend who is a Doctor, I never refer to him as Dr at all unless he says/does something totally stupid (he is very clever but has zero common sense or practical ability). As soon as he does that I refer to him as Dr, winds him up a treat! lol.
 

D_W

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I've got a friend who is a Doctor, I never refer to him as Dr at all unless he says/does something totally stupid (he is very clever but has zero common sense or practical ability). As soon as he does that I refer to him as Dr, winds him up a treat! lol.
Most of the surgeons over here are savants - they are the people you met in calculus class in college who appeared little in class and at the end of the semester had the highest grade, and literally would take 25 or 30 credit hours instead of the typical 15. But they can be odd birds when it comes to things outside of their area of practice (here in the US where the average probably makes 700k, they do know what they like and they will spend to prove it, though).

I think that's a matter of making enough money that they don't need to work on the practical side of things (though surgery and practicing medicine is extremely practical, not just an academic pursuit). Some product of lack of exposure is also due to the schedule (not sure about over there, but it's not uncommon for surgeons and specialists here to basically work all the time (like 70-80 hours a week indefinitely). Yuck.
 

sometimewoodworker

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BUT he is not entitled to infer in his Linkedin profile that he is a "Doctor".
Linkedin is not the BMA or GMC where the title Doctor means doctor of medicine.
Unless there are rules to the private site that only permit MDs to use the correct title Doctor then complain to them. Your screenshot demonstrates that you are inferring something that he is clearly not implying

he is a doctor, you are a doctor, your friend is a doctor. Capitalisation doesn’t change meaning.
 

jcassidy

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Being used as a prophylactic in India, I read? Says all you need to know about this nonsense, so.
 
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