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Pete Maddex

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Hi, Dave

Just watch any of the Anerican shows, they do it all the time. They keep banging of about the floor having to be strong with no give in it.

Pete
 

GrahamH

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Yes,

Done an upstairs bathroom which was over chipboard.

You need to use a proper flexible adhesive and grout though. The adhesive I used was a two parter which mixed with what looked like latex. The grout was a flexible one as well but they also recommended using an additive, which looked like latex.

As already mentioned, your floor does need to be solid and little or no give in it.

Graham
 

The Wood Butcher

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Most tilers would either overboard with 12mm ply or replace the wooden floor with 18mm plywood fixed at 400mm centres or 25mm fixed at 600mm.

Basically if it flexes the tiles break or come away, most chipboard flexes and pretty much all floorboards flex too much.

www.tilersforums.co.uk is a fount of tiling knowledge and they are really helpful to the know-littles, of whom when it comes to tiling I consider myself one of.
 

Lons

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I do a lot of ceramic tiling and I absolutely would never lay them directly to chipboard for one very good reason - I have a reputation to protect and I do not want a call back to fix cracked tiles or replace the grout which will very likely crack
out over time.
I do it the way woodbutcher says though where the floor is very solid, I have a couple of times dropped the ply overlay to 6mm and ringshank nailed at 150 centres without problems.

My own 2 upstairs bathrooms are tiled but I replaced the floorboards with 18mm marine ply screwed to reinforced joists and I used a latex additive and good quality adhesive as usual.

The subfloor is like the foundations of your house, get it wrong and it will be expensive to put right - better to do it right in the first place would be my advice.

Bob
 

knappers

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I had our kitchen floor replaced and overlaid with two layers of 18mm ply, then 10mm thick limestone tiles over the top. It's cracking up like a pineapple.

Si.
 

doorframe

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Sorry to hijack, but as there are some knowledgeable tilers already on this thread I'm going to jump in with my own question.

I've got concrete floors throughout the down stairs of my house. The extension is 'beam and block' screeded over. Trouble is, there is a man-hole / drain cover in the middle of it, flush with the screed. Obviously, the man-hole used to be outdoors in the garden before the extension was built, and was raised to meet the floor level.

I want to tile throughout, but need some ideas how to keep the man-hole accessible.

Hope I explained that well enough.

So.... any ideas?

Roy
 

Lons

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doorframe":3k62e9pe said:
Sorry to hijack, but as there are some knowledgeable tilers already on this thread I'm going to jump in with my own question.

I've got concrete floors throughout the down stairs of my house. The extension is 'beam and block' screeded over. Trouble is, there is a man-hole / drain cover in the middle of it, flush with the screed. Obviously, the man-hole used to be outdoors in the garden before the extension was built, and was raised to meet the floor level.

I want to tile throughout, but need some ideas how to keep the man-hole accessible.

Hope I explained that well enough.

So.... any ideas?

Roy
Hi Roy
I haven't had to deal with that problem though I have seen manholes in older properties. so probably can't help much. I'm very surprised that the building inspector let you get away with that or that the builder would even do it. Your extension can't be that old if it's beam and block?
The correct way would be to redirect the drainage outside the extension and construct at least one new manhole.

That said, as a builder - were it my property, I would look first at the possibility of moving it. If not practical then I'd lower it and construct a removable framework above it, flush with the floor so that the rest of the floor could be tiled plus the seperate insert. The grout line around this would need to be silicone or a removable grout.

I assume that a sealed screw down manhole cover has been used or you would get smells even if it's only surface water and that access is not regular but only for emergency.

Personally I couldn't live with it and would suffer the mess and expense to put it right.

I had our kitchen floor replaced and overlaid with two layers of 18mm ply, then 10mm thick limestone tiles over the top. It's cracking up like a pineapple. Si.
They didn't do it properly IMO :shock:

Bob
 

jasonB

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If its a recessed cover I would cut it and frame out of the screed and raise it upto finished floor level. If its not recessed then replace with one that is, for indoors you will need one that is termed "double seal, double cover" you can then tile the recessed cover.

Its not always possible to divert the drain around an extension as the longer run can reduce the fall to below the minimum required.

On the question of timber floors my preferance is to remove the existing and replace with 22mm T&G flooring grade plywood, I use "sprucefloor" by Wisa, comes in 8x2 sheets and has the same type of T&G as the chipboard flooring. Prime the ply with suitable primer as this stopps the moisture in teh adhesive being sucked out too quickly. Like Lons my work is by word of mouth so I don't want tiles lifting. Though this can came back to haunt you, my first job back this year was to take up 40m2 of limestone I put down about a year ago as the client decided she would prefer a woodfloor, took me three long days to kango it up :roll:

J
 

jasonB

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I have also done it with the Aquapanel and Wedi board the problem is usually the gain in height, 3mm adhesive and 12mm aquapanel plus the tile & adhesive can get quite high unless the house has a deep pile carpet.

Where the cement based boards are best is for dissimilar surfaces eg where you want to tile one area that has both timber and screed which you often find on an extension or maybe a screed kitchen and timber in other rooms on older properties.

J
 

Benchwayze

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Lons":2jvosgqh said:
doorframe":2jvosgqh said:
Sorry to hijack, but as there are some knowledgeable tilers already on this thread I'm going to jump in with my own question.

I've got concrete floors throughout the down stairs of my house. The extension is 'beam and block' screeded over. Trouble is, there is a man-hole / drain cover in the middle of it, flush with the screed. Obviously, the man-hole used to be outdoors in the garden before the extension was built, and was raised to meet the floor level.

I want to tile throughout, but need some ideas how to keep the man-hole accessible.

Hope I explained that well enough.

So.... any ideas?

Roy

Hi Roy
I haven't had to deal with that problem though I have seen manholes in older properties. so probably can't help much. I'm very surprised that the building inspector let you get away with that or that the builder would even do it. Your extension can't be that old if it's beam and block?
The correct way would be to redirect the drainage outside the extension and construct at least one new manhole.

That said, as a builder - were it my property, I would look first at the possibility of moving it. If not practical then I'd lower it and construct a removable framework above it, flush with the floor so that the rest of the floor could be tiled plus the seperate insert. The grout line around this would need to be silicone or a removable grout.

I assume that a sealed screw down manhole cover has been used or you would get smells even if it's only surface water and that access is not regular but only for emergency.

Personally I couldn't live with it and would suffer the mess and expense to put it right.

I had our kitchen floor replaced and overlaid with two layers of 18mm ply, then 10mm thick limestone tiles over the top. It's cracking up like a pineapple. Si.
They didn't do it properly IMO :shock:

Bob
They did a pretty good job in 'The Great Escape'! I think it was tunnel 'Dick' that ran from the ablutions! :mrgreen:

Sorry!!! :roll: Hat. coat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exit stage right.

Wish I could tile my Bathroom floor, but there are pipes and stuff under the floorboards. A bit of a problem if ever there was need to access them. Yes?

:(
 

Lons

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Benchwayze - Wish I could tile my Bathroom floor, but there are pipes and stuff under the floorboards. A bit of a problem if ever there was need to access them. Yes?
Didn't stop me :lol: absolutely loads of pipework under my floor but as the kitchen is below the bathrooms, I took the view that in an extreme situation, I would access through the kitchen ceiling.

Bob
 

Lons

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jasonB":2m2jcnd2 said:
Its not always possible to divert the drain around an extension as the longer run can reduce the fall to below the minimum required
J
I've only ever encountered this once Jason and that was a very large extension. There can be some tollerance in falls despite what the manuals say and usually a way around it. Usually a manhole inside a building is due to laziness or cost saving IMO. Probably not a feasible option for the OP to move it now, but as a builder, I certainly would do it or I'd fret about it forever :roll:

My first job back this year was to take up 40m2 of limestone I put down about a year ago as the client decided she would prefer a woodfloor, took me three long days to kango it up :roll:
Had to laugh at that Jason as it happened to me:
I laid a 20m2 limestone floor in a kitchen and 2 years later was asked to extend the kitchen and build a conservatory - no problem until they decided they wanted the old flooring saved and relaid in the conservatory and new tiles laid in the kitchen.
The husband said I was overcharging and asked how I came to such an exhorbitant sum. Should have seen the guys' face when I told him it included new tiles as there was no f++++++ way on earth I could lift and save the old ones. I loaned him a hammer and chisel to try himself - you can guess the rest :lol: Can't print what his wife said about him later :roll:
Bob
 

Benchwayze

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Lons":3duxs9n5 said:
Benchwayze - Wish I could tile my Bathroom floor, but there are pipes and stuff under the floorboards. A bit of a problem if ever there was need to access them. Yes?
Didn't stop me :lol: absolutely loads of pipework under my floor but as the kitchen is below the bathrooms, I took the view that in an extreme situation, I would access through the kitchen ceiling.

Bob
I also have weakened joists beneath (Braced with mild-steel bar) The plumbers who did the installation couldn't get the right amount of fall on the pipes. They had to cut rather more than they should have from the floor joists on the landing. the pipes couldn't go much lower. Hence my adding the metal to the joists, just in case. I put access hatches in the floor too, so I burned my bridges there!

I don't think I'd want to break through plaster-board now though. At my age I have to get young bloods to do that sort of thing, and it's expensive! :wink:
 

Lons

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Benchwayze":1tmkspyb said:
I don't think I'd want to break through plaster-board now though. At my age I have to get young bloods to do that sort of thing, and it's expensive! :wink:
Wimp :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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