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Is this a daft idea?

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DaveL

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I have a JACK hard point saw that due to my careless use in sawing secondhand timber with nails in now has a number of broken teeth. #-o
Err is that someone cheering at the back? :wink:

I was thinking that I have a nice saw shaped bit of steel, how about removing all of the nasty hard teeth and than filing some new ones on, yes buy hand. :shock:
I will need to buy some new saw files as all on mine (if I can find then) are old and probably blunt. I have a couple of saw sets (somewhere) and have in the past hand sharpened and set saws. 8) It should be like riding a bike, ie never forgotten but then 30 years have past buy while I was distracted. :roll:

So is it a daft idea? Maybe I could just cut the saw up and try using it as scrapers? Maybe I should mount it on show to remind me to check for nails before using a nearly new saw on old timber. :evil: Just maybe I could make a user from the current wreck? :D
 

MikeW

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Hi Dave,

Wouldn't use the word daft...but I don't think it will work. Possible, but unlikely.

Hardpoint saws only have the teeth area hardened, and usually over hardened at that. Brittle comes to mind.

Once sharpened past the hardening, the steel is too soft to support teeth. Most likely won't make decent scrapers either.

But look at it this way. You now have a good excuse to find a decent older saw that can be sharpened until the blade is gone!

Mike
 

Alf

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Dave,

I'd go along with Mike in that I believe the steel behind the hardened teeth is unlikely to be up to the task - and probably not worth all the effort of re-cutting the teeth anyway. But I'd also agree with PP that it might come in handy one day, so I'd be reluctant to toss it either. Depends on how much of a hoarder/pack rat you are really. :D

Cheers, Alf
 

Shady

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Of course, if the tooth area is insanely hard, you could just blowtorch the edge until it loses its temper: then work a new set of teeth into that nice soft steel, then re-temper with heat/oil - there are some links out there on doing it. here's one description:
Using a charcoal grill, a hair dryer, and a MAPP gas torch for an additional heat source, heat the steel up in a bed of hot charcoal to cherry red (or the point at which the steel is no longer magnetic if you are unsure of the color you are working to). The charcoal helps to evenly heat the steel, and the hair dryer is needed for use as a "bellows" on the charcoal to raise the heat of the fire to a suitable temperature for hardening. When the steel is hot enough, its dipped into a quenching oil to cool it quickly (this is what hardens the steel). A can of peanut oil, or used motor oil will suffice for use as a quenching oil. Lightly swish the tool in the oil until cooled.

The steel should be hard to the point of being too brittle now. To soften (anneal) it somewhat, after it has fully cooled, place the tool in an oven at 350 - 400 degrees for about an hour. This should soften the steel to where its useable again, about RC 50 - 55 or so, if all the above has been done properly.
 

Jarviser

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I don't think letting down the steel and sharpening what you have got is the answer. Hardpoint saws usually have a completely different profile, and as you have lost some teeth then you would need to cut a new set of teeth as you suggest - IF the steel were OK. However saw blades must be fairly soft to be sharpened by file anyway, and induction hardening needs some decent mineral content to harden so you have a good chance. At least it would be practice even if the result blunted after a week. Robert Wearing suggests clamping a piece of machine hack-saw blade (i.e. chunky and at least 10 TPI) against the blank blade as a guide to get the spacing right, which would be the crucial and most difficult task. File until you reach the bottom of each gulley. You would need more than one file as the hacksaw blade would dull the file in this shaping process. Personally I would not waste 4 hours on a throwaway saw! The above method is better for rescuing a good saw or creating a coarse rip tenon saw.
Scrapers? If you have a good shop guillotine then try it. Cutting up a saw by any other means is a desparate process, I have found.
 

devonwoody

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I dont think it feasible to cut the blade up for scrapers. However you could have one large scraper :)
 

bugbear

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Given the car-boot cost of good, old, saws with fine steel and comfortable handles, I wouldn't put effort into a hard point.

Further, I certainly wouldn't try to heat treat a saw. Thin (or just plain small) itens are extremely difficult, since they heat up (and down) quickly: too quickly to get the fine control needed.

BugBear
 
A

Anonymous

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I think saw-filing would be a useful skill to have, but although I've read about it, it seems like it would be something where a teacher would be better than a book. Where would one go about learning how to file a saw? Are there any teachers, or is everyone here self-taught.

Question girl strikes again.

cheers,

evie
 
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Anonymous

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I guess what I am most concerned with is that I buy a saw that I hope will just need sharpening, and it turns out that it's really complicated, but I don't know that, and I try to do it, become frustrated, and cry a lot. Maybe I should buy two, hoping that one of them will be suitable (and I'll be able to tell the difference).

Anyway I guess my new cheap dozuki and very cheap jacksaw will be sufficient for the moment. But I'd like to learn to sharpen a saw that can take sharpening. Just not with something Very Difficult. A video sounds like a really good idea. Thanks for the recommendation.
 

MikeW

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Evie,

As Alf mentioned, the Vintage Saw website really contains enough info to get the job done. If a modicum of attention is paid to the task of sharpening, it is difficult to mess it up, especially with saws configured as rip saws.

Another good site is the Norse Woodsmith website. This link begins at the saw section. Clicking the home link takes you to the sart of his website. Lief has a ton of great information there conerning saws (and other things).

In all things wood remember to have fun.

Mike
 
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Anonymous

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One thing I like a lot about this forum is how encouraging everyone is. It is much appreciated, believe me!

I don't seem to be able to find where one might purchase the sharpening video, or other videos that have been recommended, like Jim Kingshott's bench plane video. Is there a secret source or do I just watch for them on eBay?

My planes, I fear, are not performing at their highest level of efficiency, although I am enjoying making shavings with them (many of them paper-thin). It's just that I don't seem to be able to take shavings all the way across the blade, and sometimes they catch in the middle of the stroke, and sometimes I can take a whole stroke without anything happening. I suspect this is a sharpening issue, possibly combined with my totally untutored technique, and further possibly with some kind of tuning issue, although I've scrutinised them carefully, taken them apart, cleaned them, and put them back together again, and twiddled the various knobs and levers for depth and lateral adjustment to see what happens. It would be good to see someone using one, see how they are supposed to perform. I don't think we get to planing in my class this term, and I am impatient...

evie
 

Alf

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evie":nje00dlm said:
I don't seem to be able to find where one might purchase the sharpening video, or other videos that have been recommended, like Jim Kingshott's bench plane video. Is there a secret source or do I just watch for them on eBay?
Look to the West - 'Murrica is the source, as is so often the case. Even for the Kingshott vids, despite his undoubted Britishness.

evie":nje00dlm said:
My planes, I fear, are not performing at their highest level of efficiency, although I am enjoying making shavings with them (many of them paper-thin).
Ahh, but you're enjoying it - that's the main thing. :D

All we really need is a plane-savvy member in your area. :-k Or maybe Charley needs to look again at the idea of online videos of techniques and such...

Cheers, Alf
 
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