I'm worried about what people will think after I die...

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Amateur

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You'd think that all salesmen were motivated by money. This is not the case. Some like the chase for the order, some like the esteem....
and rich folk??
well the poorer they dress the richer they are in some cases...
and take my sister for instance.....
now she lives to belittle people, brag about how much money she has, what property she has, how other families conduct themselves while her eldest son slit his wrists as a teenager because she pressurised him for under achieving at school........
yet through all this her husband puts up with it, says nothing and she keeps doing what she's always done oblivious to the hurt and upset she has caused.......

psychologist use this one too,

God,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can
and
Wisdom to know the difference.
 

D_W

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A few years ago, it dawned on me, that someone else's opinion of me, is none of my business.

Ditto - this is why people who are easily embarrassed are difficult to deal with. It may be of no consequence to you or me (really, if one thinks further about it and doesn't have expectation that keeping a front of acceptability as far as all others are concerned is important, it's really no pain at all to disregard anyones' opinion when they suggest you don't measure up in their mind.

As you slip away into bliss, if you're attached to someone who is conerned about that, though, you will be lassoed back in.
 

rafezetter

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My Father has to my misfortune been a slave to "what other people think" all his life, he would often tell me that "what you do reflects on me" as though everyone knows who he is (he's a nobody like you, me and everyone else), and despite being a not particularly nice person himself. In later years he got himself on a board of a charity and ultimately became the chairperson, the same for a sailing club and again ultimately became "Commodore" (chair person), all the while continuing to be not a particularly nice person behind closed doors, and he still to this day has incredibly ridiculous foibles such as insisting curtains are always drawn on all the windows during the day (heaven forbid people walk past the house and think - "geez thier curtains are still drawn, they must still be in bed the lazy 'tards", and when drawn that they are to be drawn "evenly"; it's not OCD, it's because in his head people are walking past his £1.3 million home and judging him PERSONALLY on the fact the curtains are "uneven". When I started college at 19 (1989) he insisted I go wearing a tweed jacket, corduroy slacks, a shirt and tie, which he had chosen and bought for me without my knowledge - I think I was ONLY ONE in the entire campus dressed that way (remember it's 1989) - I did it for a week before having a very bad argument with him that ended in a physical altercation by him because I was "showing him up".

oh and that's just sparked a memory, at his wedding to his 2nd wife (I was about 11) he told his sister "make sure you and your kids don't show me up" because he didn't want his other guests, which were collegues and clients etc knowing his sister lived in a council house, and was a single mum with 3 kids (who then went on to become a paramedic, a Fireman and then Station Officer, and security staff at an airport respectively)

Some people just seem to go thorugh life thinking there is a sign above thier heads with thier name address etc and that other people are following them around watching what they are doing and keeping some kind of score, and although to some degree social media has made that a reality, for 99.9% of the worlds population, the rest of the 99.9% of the population JUST.DONT.GIVE.A.rubbish.ABOUT YOU. because they have no clue who you are, where you work, how much money you have, where you grew up, what school you went to and whether you are a member of the funny handshake brigade - which I forgot to mention my father is also a Freemason, oh and STILL uses Esq (Esquire) after his name for landmail as though that adds some kudos - without realising it actually makes most people think "pineapple".

I understand some of it is indoctrinated via the social customs of the time from thier childhood, and some others by forced indoctrination by parents, and yet more comes from a deep need for social status and recognition; that never actually arrives from anyone that matters other than from the other pineapples doing the same thing - but what I've never understood is that even after years of proof that no-one really cares, how someone can continue to beleive such nonsense matters to other people and allow it to become thier master.

(and just for the record, his money I've told him to shove it, not interested in having him laud that over me along with everytthing else until he dies, I still get my nose rubbed in my private school fees 35 years later.)
 

doctor Bob

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My Father has to my misfortune been a slave to "what other people think" all his life, he would often tell me that "what you do reflects on me" as though everyone knows who he is (he's a nobody like you, me and everyone else), and despite being a not particularly nice person himself. In later years he got himself on a board of a charity and ultimately became the chairperson, the same for a sailing club and again ultimately became "Commodore" (chair person), all the while continuing to be not a particularly nice person behind closed doors, and he still to this day has incredibly ridiculous foibles such as insisting curtains are always drawn on all the windows during the day (heaven forbid people walk past the house and think - "geez thier curtains are still drawn, they must still be in bed the lazy 'tards", and when drawn that they are to be drawn "evenly"; it's not OCD, it's because in his head people are walking past his £1.3 million home and judging him PERSONALLY on the fact the curtains are "uneven". When I started college at 19 (1989) he insisted I go wearing a tweed jacket, corduroy slacks, a shirt and tie, which he had chosen and bought for me without my knowledge - I think I was ONLY ONE in the entire campus dressed that way (remember it's 1989) - I did it for a week before having a very bad argument with him that ended in a physical altercation by him because I was "showing him up".

oh and that's just sparked a memory, at his wedding to his 2nd wife (I was about 11) he told his sister "make sure you and your kids don't show me up" because he didn't want his other guests, which were collegues and clients etc knowing his sister lived in a council house, and was a single mum with 3 kids (who then went on to become a paramedic, a Fireman and then Station Officer, and security staff at an airport respectively)

Some people just seem to go thorugh life thinking there is a sign above thier heads with thier name address etc and that other people are following them around watching what they are doing and keeping some kind of score, and although to some degree social media has made that a reality, for 99.9% of the worlds population, the rest of the 99.9% of the population JUST.DONT.GIVE.A.rubbish.ABOUT YOU. because they have no clue who you are, where you work, how much money you have, where you grew up, what school you went to and whether you are a member of the funny handshake brigade - which I forgot to mention my father is also a Freemason, oh and STILL uses Esq (Esquire) after his name for landmail as though that adds some kudos - without realising it actually makes most people think "pineapple".

I understand some of it is indoctrinated via the social customs of the time from thier childhood, and some others by forced indoctrination by parents, and yet more comes from a deep need for social status and recognition; that never actually arrives from anyone that matters other than from the other pineapples doing the same thing - but what I've never understood is that even after years of proof that no-one really cares, how someone can continue to beleive such nonsense matters to other people and allow it to become thier master.

(and just for the record, his money I've told him to shove it, not interested in having him laud that over me along with everytthing else until he dies, I still get my nose rubbed in my private school fees 35 years later.)

at least you're over it ................ 🤣
 

rafezetter

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at least you're over it ................ 🤣
Well quite, I'm clearly not, but that just shows how people with this sort of mindset can really damage those around them.

(and I will thank you for not mocking me about it, regardless of your personal feelings about me, my politics or viewpoints; whether you recall or not I was supportive when you posted about some serious business issues you were having middle of last year during lockdown, please kindly show me the same courtesy or say nothing)
 

D_W

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My Father has to my misfortune been a slave to "what other people think" all his life, he would often tell me that "what you do reflects on me" as though everyone knows who he is (he's a nobody like you, me and everyone else), and despite being a not particularly nice person himself. In later years he got himself on a board of a charity and ultimately became the chairperson, the same for a sailing club and again ultimately became "Commodore" (chair person), all the while continuing to be not a particularly nice person behind closed doors, and he still to this day has incredibly ridiculous foibles such as insisting curtains are always drawn on all the windows during the day (heaven forbid people walk past the house and think - "geez thier curtains are still drawn, they must still be in bed the lazy 'tards", and when drawn that they are to be drawn "evenly"; it's not OCD, it's because in his head people are walking past his £1.3 million home and judging him PERSONALLY on the fact the curtains are "uneven". When I started college at 19 (1989) he insisted I go wearing a tweed jacket, corduroy slacks, a shirt and tie, which he had chosen and bought for me without my knowledge - I think I was ONLY ONE in the entire campus dressed that way (remember it's 1989) - I did it for a week before having a very bad argument with him that ended in a physical altercation by him because I was "showing him up".

oh and that's just sparked a memory, at his wedding to his 2nd wife (I was about 11) he told his sister "make sure you and your kids don't show me up" because he didn't want his other guests, which were collegues and clients etc knowing his sister lived in a council house, and was a single mum with 3 kids (who then went on to become a paramedic, a Fireman and then Station Officer, and security staff at an airport respectively)

Some people just seem to go thorugh life thinking there is a sign above thier heads with thier name address etc and that other people are following them around watching what they are doing and keeping some kind of score, and although to some degree social media has made that a reality, for 99.9% of the worlds population, the rest of the 99.9% of the population JUST.DONT.GIVE.A.rubbish.ABOUT YOU. because they have no clue who you are, where you work, how much money you have, where you grew up, what school you went to and whether you are a member of the funny handshake brigade - which I forgot to mention my father is also a Freemason, oh and STILL uses Esq (Esquire) after his name for landmail as though that adds some kudos - without realising it actually makes most people think "pineapple".

I understand some of it is indoctrinated via the social customs of the time from thier childhood, and some others by forced indoctrination by parents, and yet more comes from a deep need for social status and recognition; that never actually arrives from anyone that matters other than from the other pineapples doing the same thing - but what I've never understood is that even after years of proof that no-one really cares, how someone can continue to beleive such nonsense matters to other people and allow it to become thier master.

(and just for the record, his money I've told him to shove it, not interested in having him laud that over me along with everytthing else until he dies, I still get my nose rubbed in my private school fees 35 years later.)

A perfect example of what I mentioned earlier about people who are easily embarrassed being difficult to get along with.

He's the opposite of my mentioned relative (who could very well be mid 8 figures, but loves a good carrier hat (the one that he served on and learned mathematics, which sparked him), and wears a flannel in the winter and pull on "ropers" (a style of relaxed boots in the US) that don't get polished. He drives a low/mid level GM products.

He's massively entertaining to talk to - except that some folks get worn thin that he's not doing enough to impress people, or that he's not spending all of his time figuring out how to give his money away and be more empathetic to people (he gives money to animal rescue bits instead and has cast off disabled cats sometimes).

None of my relatives are like your father - perhaps too lazy - it's a lot of work to be like that, but I have worked with people who are similar - what they don't realize is that they're running around with a crowd much like them - they are looking to see what they can gain from each other, but nobody from the outside likes them at all. They believe their behavior inside the house isn't known and they're keeping appearances outside such that everyone loves them and they're shocked to hear that someone doesn't (and can easily explain it away as never being them). The thing that i'm baffled by is that is a 7 day a week job and it's constant, all waking hours and sometimes leading to lost sleep - eventually the negativity is shown to so many people that it's not hidden from anyone, but in between it is a false face of being everyones' friend, and perhaps being generous, giving, etc, whatever it may be. In the background (this may not be your issue), there is greed and credit taking when available and resentment of other colleagues due to competitiveness. Any regular people like us who cross paths or work with or for the type generally are lost causes for ourselves. It's a transitory state to get through.

(separately, about an hour ago, my wife told me I'm an embarrassment :) That's a regular occurrence and she's not of means. For my spouse, it's my disorganization in my areas - but they are areas that nobody else needs to see. She's horrified of a scenario that will never occur....like perhaps friends or coworkers will say "you know what, we saw your husband's workspace. We're no longer going to talk to you, and we will be paying for a billboard to let everyone know. Everyone has to know about this. It has to be told - your husband maybe can't help it, but you could've and that makes you even worse than him!).

I am sorry for your trouble with your dad, but recognize having a mother who is in the opposite direction (not interested in me, my sister or our kids - but there's nothing we can do about it, no reason for it in particular - it just is). I've thought about it from time to time, and my wife (who is easily embarrassed) often goads me about how I should be doing something about my mother, forcing her to be more helpful or forcing her to asking questions about the kids...

When it's clear it won't change, we can sever ourselves from it and use it as fuel to be better than we would otherwise be.
 

Blackswanwood

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This thread certainly starts to show how complex human nature is. In general I think it's an unhealthy trait to "worry" about what others may think as it leads to unhappiness and toxic behaviour as described by @rafezetter . Equally though I think it's a positive thing to be mindful of how others perceive us as our actions and behaviours may otherwise have a negative impact on them.

Going back to the OP scenario 2 - @D_W - do the right thing and buy her a new plot for her birthday. What a great story to be able to dine out on :ROFLMAO:
 

woodfarmer

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My mother used to visit my sister in NZ every second year for three months. She debated buying a property there (30 years ago - affordable then) so she could have six months here, six there - no winters. The only reason she didn't was because she was afraid of dying there. I could never understand why it should make any difference.
A friend, a multi millionaire , spends his life worrying about his children wasting his money when he dies - which they will.

My wife knows my wishes when I die - chuck my body on a fire and a couple of grand on the bar.
I only knew of you today and already I think we are alike :) I have asked for my ashes to be put in the channel between Godrevy lighthouse and the shore, My dad is already there.
 

Phil Pascoe

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I only knew of you today and already I think we are alike :) I have asked for my ashes to be put in the channel between Godrevy lighthouse and the shore, My dad is already there.
My daughter's ashes are thrown to wind from the top of Carn Brea, where mine will go.
My grandmother came from Hakey Bay. To the lighthouse. I have been to the top of Godrevy lighthouse. We used to kayak out there (a strong westerly wind on the autumn equinox and St. Ives Bay is a brilliant place to be in a kayak only if you are young, very fit and incredibly foolish). Fascinating place - at the top there are huge curved frames like door frames holding glasses so they can be changed to alter the flash, including red glasses for danger signals. One tiny flame provides the light- every lighthouse in the world has a unique signal flash timed by the revolution and position of the lenses, enabling its recognition by mariners. The ground floor has emergency provisions and life rafts - or it did have, it might not now. The slates on the outhouse roofs are like the slates from a snooker table, they are huge and thick to stand the weather. You can walk among the nestling baby gulls and cormorants as they know no fear.
 

RobinBHM

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In later years he got himself on a board of a charity and ultimately became the chairperson, the same for a sailing club and again ultimately became "Commodore" (chair person

It sounds rather like your father has spent his life striving for status, like a sort of social climber.

I would hazard a guess it's driven by insecurity / low self esteem - which are characteristics of borderline personality disorder.

People with such traits are in my limited experience very difficult to deal with in relationships - family or friends. Usually they are highly driven in their pursuit of their perceived success. Dare I say it, but Trump is an example -narcissism is closely linked to BPD.

You have my sincere sympathy, it must be very hard to deal with. And as you know, such people never change.
 

Flynnwood

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Interesting thread. I do think there is going to be a huge Pension issue for today's 20 to 30 year olds working in the UK private sector.
 

doctor Bob

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I do think there is going to be a huge Pension issue for today's 20 to 30 year olds working in the UK private sector.

Agreed, persuaded my son start his pension at 19, he puts in about 8%. I didn't start properly till I was about 40 and now bundling it in to make up time.
 

JobandKnock

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A friend, a multi millionaire , spends his life worrying about his children wasting his money when he dies - which they will.
I served my time under a man who thought the same. He worked well.into his retirement years, always wanting one of his kids or granchildren to take over the business. They all wanted him to sell up and retire (then leave them a load of money). He retired, died within 6 months and the business was sold
All his savings and the proceeds of selling the business went into a trust fund which kept his wife in their house for quite a few years until she passed away. But the trust didn't pay a penny to any of the immediate family, who were all comfortably off and didn't really need anything more (his words, I recall) - instead a number of small payments were made to loyal ex-employees, as a token of appreciation, and the balance went to charity. I was at that meeting in a solicito's office and the family were speechless.

Si ce then I have always thought that was a most appropriate way to deal with money when your time is up
 

Spectric

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persuaded my son start his pension at 19, he puts in about 8%
Very good move, obviously has his head screwed on as many do not think about pensions until much later in life which you could get away with many years ago as there were good final salary company pensions around and a state pension at 65 but no more, I will be 67 for my state pension. Will today's 20 year olds even see a state pension, and at what age.

If I were young again today with a skill set I think emigration would have serious consideration as things are not as bright and rosy as they once were.
 

D_W

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Very good move, obviously has his head screwed on as many do not think about pensions until much later in life which you could get away with many years ago as there were good final salary company pensions around and a state pension at 65 but no more, I will be 67 for my state pension. Will today's 20 year olds even see a state pension, and at what age.

If I were young again today with a skill set I think emigration would have serious consideration as things are not as bright and rosy as they once were.

There will always be a state pension, but it may be later and less unless certain conditions are met (indigent, low income, etc) and marginalized by changing taxable status, etc.

Every country has the same issue due to longevity. When state pensions were put in place, most were paying in and few receiving. As time went on, the balance was to change just based on passage of time, but increasing life expectancy and starting ages that didn't change with it changes things.

Same goes for company pensions - obligations that change outside of the control of the corporation or plan participants - not so well liked when big non-funded obligations appear.
 

Orraloon

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That's weird, that wasn't what I wrote....I never said "silly person" I said "i***t
I***t is a verboten word on the forum. I have also had it changed to silly person. Not sure if thats supposed to cause less offence but thats the rule. Strange world we live in when words can be banned regardless of context.
Regards
John
 

Sirenity

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My analysis is that obsessively worry about their estate post mortem is a displacement/distraction activity from worrying about their mortality.

For your friend, (first scenario) please suggest they set up a trust fund for small disbursements to students in their chosen field.
As a youngster I lived in a poor area and someone had left their money in a trust to the parish council, to be distributed to local undergraduates on submission of a request for specific needs (books etc); administered by the council annually.
£500 made a massive difference to me and I had a weird sense of this bloke I’d never known caring about me doing well in my studies. it definitely inspired me to keep going when dung was tough, I was the first in my family to go to uni and was very much a fish out of water and tempted to stop juggling jobs study and raising kids simultaneously!
He could also encourage some into his field over another if he left a scholarship fund.
 

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