I. Sorby sash cramp

[lurker]

I was sorting out my sash cramp rack.
I have a cramp about 4 ft long. It's not very good quality had not noticed until today it's a sorby one.
Strange I had never noticed before.
I wasn't aware they made stuff like that.

 

[AndyT]

I've scanned and shared a 1938 Marples catalogue. I've seen enough extracts from a 1938 I Sorby catalogue to know that almost the entire range was also available with the I Sorby brand instead. The prices were the same.

I think some brands were better established in different countries - a bit like some car marques now.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The various Marpleses give rise to some confusion. Well, they confuse me, anyway.

So far, from Grace's Guide and BPM2, I've found the following;

1) Sorby and Turner, which (I think) became Turner and Naylor, then Turner, Naylor and Marples, of Northern Tool Works, Sheffield; trademark I Sorby, the firm lasting until 1967.

2) William Marples and Sons, founded 1828 by William Marples, later of Hibernia Works, trademark 'Shamrock Brand'. In 1892 they acquired the planemaking business of John Moseley and Sons, London. In 1905 they acquired the business of Thomas Ibbotson and Co, Sheffield. The 1938 catalogue is available to view on the Toolemera website (courtesy of AndyT), and lists both absorbed firms as premium brand trademarks. The business was bought by a consortium of C&J Hampton and William Ridgeway in 1962.

3) Joseph Marples - founded about 1865, and still going.

Were the William Marples (Shamrock brand) and Turner, Naylor and Marples (I Sorby brand) operated independently, or controlled by the same Marples family members? Can anybody put dates to the various company foundations and take-overs?

 

[AndyT]

There's a useful profile of Marples in the Rees's Tools a Guide for Collectors.

It confirms that the William Marples & Son company (founded 1828) absorbed Turner & Naylor in 1876, John Moseley & Son in 1883, Thomas Ibbotson in 1905, and John Sorby & Son in 1932.

As the 1938 catalogue shows, the earlier firms' brands remained available, as did the I Sorby brand.

The Marples in Turner, Naylor & Marples was Charles Marples (1848-1901) - as explained by Geoffrey Tweedale in this excellent note at http://wkfinetools.com/contrib2/TweedaleG/SorbyFamily/SorbyFamily-01.asp. I assume he was one of the 'Sons.'

(Wiktor's site actually has two versions of this note - to get this detail, you need the one linked to above, which has five pages, and appears under Geoffrey Tweedale's name, not the two page version listed under UK Makers.)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Ah - thank you, Andy! Mind you, until I've drawn myself a diagram of all the takeovers and mergers, I'll still find it all confusing! I think the firm of John Sorby and Son used the I & H Sorby trademark, and the suspended sheep device (possibly because they did a good trade in sheep-shears). Consequently, William Marples and Son eventually owned both the I Sorby and the I & H Sorby trademarks.

That presumably means that Lurker's sash cramp was made by (or for) Marples, though we can't really pin down exactly when.

 

[lurker]

The I Sorby is cast into the cramp head so it's not just a sales outlet

To be honest I had been planning to cut a couple of foot off it as I have sufficient long cramps but am forever struggling for enough short ones.

 

[memzey]

So where then does Robert Sorby fit into this puzzle?

That's my oldest chisel (I think) at probably about 200 years or so old. As can be seen it has "ROBT SORBY" as the maker.

 

[AndyT]

Memzey, you need to follow the link I gave through to page 5 of Geoffrey Tweedale's detailed history.
http://wkfinetools.com/contrib2/TweedaleG/SorbyFamily/SorbyFamily-05.asp

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There's a PDF of the Robert Sorby history on their website - http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/media/wys ... ooklet.pdf

If I remember correctly, they didn't start to use the Kangaroo trademark until about 1865. That suggests that Memzey's chisel dates from between 1828 when the firm was founded and 1865 or so when the Kangaroo started to appear. That fits with the chisel's shoulder shape, too. However, the bolster is smaller than those before the use of ferrules (no ferrule, big bolster to support ferruleless handles), which didn't start to be used until the 1840s or so (because there wasn't a cheap and reliable process for making drawn tube before then), so that suggests about 1850 - 1865. Or thereabouts. Still an oldie - it'll take a wicked edge, that one!

 

[lurker]

I "get" the sheep association, but why a Kangaroo?

 

[AndyT]

I "get" the sheep association, but why a Kangaroo?

Because a large part of their target export market was "the colonies" in Australia!