I knew hardwoods were't cheap, but...

[OPJ]

So I went down my local earlier today and finally got my hands on my first purchase of hardwood (mainly ash, with a couple of lengths of oak).

I didn't want an awful lot, and I still don't think I came away with as much as a could have taken... But when it came to paying for the goods after I'd loaded, "yours comes to £187.46", my heart stopped momentarily - hopefully I can still make it to 21, next Friday! :wink:

Of course, I was expecting to pay a fair amount more than what I usually do for similar amounts in softwood, but how much should I be looking to pay for the following:

(All timber sawn, country cut. Prices p/m exclude VAT)

2 x 1.6m 2"x2" Oak (£6.21)

3 x 3.0m 8"x1" Ash (£10.11)

1 x 3.0m 10"x1" Ash (£12.63)

And 1 x 1m 12"x1-1/2" Southern Yellow Pine (£8.99)
(Okay, so the pine isn't hardwood, but it was still part of this order.)

£159.54 (plus VAT at £27.92)


For the 120 capacity CD tower I plan on building, with the Ash, I ideally want only 7"x1" boards to suit the cd racks sold by Woodfit, but this was the closest they had on stock. But that still doesn't explain why I felt the need to purchase 12m worth when I reckon I can complete this project with 4m max!! :lol:

I can literally afford to do that with redwood, certainly... But crikey, I may have to go back to softwoods again or else I'll soon be in some kind of financial crisis! :wink:


How much would you expect to pay at your local timber merchant?

And, like me, do you have a bad habit of taking the old "always allow for wastage" line a little too seriously...? :wink:

I guess I've learned it the hard way - it doesn't pay to make softwood mistakes with hardwood. Next time, I must remember to get a quote, before hand. Maybe applying for an account could help too...

Anyway, thanks for reading.

 

[CHJ]

"British Hardwoods" :is a reasonable source for comparison:

 

[Scrit]

Seems a bit high to say the least. The 2in oak (native) should run no more than £40/cu ft and the white native ash no more than £35/cu ft - and those are pretty much top dollar (let's forget the little guys out in the sticks, these are real world prices) evrn on that basis I run to £101+VAT....... So I'd ask the price per cube before ordering in future. Otherwise you'll be paying Travis-Perkin prices!

Scrit

 

[JFC]

Always but Always when you get the price ask them if they can do something with it ! If they say no Always ask if they are sure ! That should get you past the sales desk and at least get you 15% off .
If you shop there often you should be getting that already , if you shop there every other day and also shop with other yards you can make snide comments on thier mark up and get more discount . I have this down to a fine art :lol: Timber yards have to make thier money but if they know your going to shop with them for a very long time they will give very good rates because over time they will make it back .
Having stock left over is always good but make sure someone else has paid for it ..... you could end up using it on another job when you get a bad order . But when you get enough you can make nice things for yourself :wink:

 

[Richard in Smithville]

This is a place close to me. It's in Canadian dollars and board feet. I don't know how this compares to your prices.

 

[jasonB]

Its a bit on the high side, you have got just over 3cu ft (0.75oak, 2.34ash) so you were charged £63/cu when the going rate should be about £40.00.

Have a look at these prices it gives per meter costs for varying thicknesses and width for your chosen timber.

http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/looseboards.asp

Jason

 

[devonwoody]

Were you charged the price for PAR or planed one edge etc?

Give the supplier a call back under another name and do some price checks.

Then find a big stick

 

[Scrit]

Were you charged the price for PAR or planed one edge etc?

Do you mean waney edge (W/E), 1/SE or 2/SE (the hardwood terms)? Hardwood is rarely sold planed all round (PAR) like softwood. Knowing the correct terminology also helps you at the merchant, as they're less likely to treat you like a pudding. What a lot of them don't like is people who come in and pick through an entire stack to find one plank.....

Scrit

 

[devonwoody]

Thanks scrit for bringing me up to scratch on those terms.

Regarding the timber stacks, those merchants shouldn't put all the rubbish at the top of the pile. :roll:

 

[Scrit]

I think I'd agree with you at times. There's also the health and safety issue - they days of crawling over a stack are coming to an end because of safety concerns. There are some very reputable merchants, for example John Boddy, who will deliver you what you expect, but they do charge a premium for top grade. However for that yopu expect to get less wastage. Swings and roundabouts?

Scrit

 

[ProShop]

Seems very expensive to me as well.

I've just paid £187 for this little lot, mostly Euro Oak + some douglas fir.

 

[devonwoody]

Looking at your photograph made me wince, there must be a fair amount of wastage there as well.

 

[Colin C]

If I have seen right too, some of that timber has lots of shakes in it ( hope they are just on the top ).
I hope I am wrong but if they go right through, you will have payed for some thing that will not give you ant good timber
I have seen this happen before, a friend I was working with got what he thought was some quarter saw oak ( and pay a bit :shock: more for it ) but it was not QS and was checked all the way through.
Ps This was SL hardwoods ( he got a refund after we told him what he had got, He had not been a maker for that long )

 

[ProShop]

there must be a fair amount of wastage there as well.

There won't be any wastage on these, as going to be used in a barn conversion. They form part of a complex roof that will be seen from inside.

If I have seen right too, some of that timber has lots of shakes in it ( hope they are just on the top ).
I hope I am wrong but if they go right through, you will have payed for some thing that will not give you ant good timber Sad

The shakes are called character features . The're only on the surface, but I hand picked them delibreately as these will when finished look old to match the 200 year old barn.

 

[Scrit]

Interesting, isn't it, that what is seen as a defect in one branch of the trades is seen as a attractive plus feature in others......

 

[Colin C]

Interesting, isn't it, that what is seen as a defect in one branch of the trades is seen as a attractive plus feature in others......

That would depend on what it is used for , If I was repairing some old English furniture then I would want some shakes to but I thought it was for new
( You should have the oak my friend got, it was 1inch thick and that shakes where so bad :shock: , it was good for fire wood)

 

[ProShop]

Interesting, isn't it, that what is seen as a defect in one branch of the trades is seen as a attractive plus feature in others......

You mean something like this Scrit

 

[OPJ]

Thanks for your replies.

With regards to the price per cube, my local seems to work in meters, how much should I be looking to pay for a cubic metre of oak and ash, sawn?

Normally, the company planes timber up for you to a nominal size. Although I asked for sawn timber, perhaps the prices were taken straight from PAR? I did assume it would be cheaper that way, but since I never asked upon ordering, perhaps they simply ran it through at their "standard" rates?

I'll definitley get a quote next time, whatever.

The boards I bought were square-edged, not wainy. I also meant to enquire on the species and origins or the timber - for all I know, I could've payed a decent price for very good quality hardwoods... :?
I'm not certain of any structural grading either.


I don't think I could've picked a worse time for it either...
Both car insurance and tax expire on Friday (yet to be renewed...) and I was only just praising myself for spending a meer £18 in the last 30 days on eBay! :wink:

How does trade discount work then? I am now a qualified carpenter and joiner, just not working as one, unfortunately... Would that also get me anything?

 

[Scrit]

With regards to the price per cube, my local seems to work in meters, how much should I be looking to pay for a cubic metre of oak and ash, sawn?

They'll quote in cubic feet because that's what most people still work in and it's a more wieldy figure. It's mainly the importers who talk in cubic metres at the moment. Price per cube depends on species (American or native), quality and thickness. 4in oak is a lot more expensive than 1in. I'd use John Boddy as a good indicator for what a good quality merchant should charge. If you're getting good quality at less than Boddies charge you're on a winner. Factors like W/E or 1/SE also reduce the price per cube, but the wastage goes up....

Normally, the company planes timber up for you to a nominal size

They're charging you a premium for that service. I'd still get it quoted separately as it's not a standard in hardwoods.

I'm not certain of any structural grading either.

Structural grading is normally only applied to construction timbers - e.g. certain types/sizes of softwoods, sheet materials, etc. Rare to see it on H/W. Grading in H/W depends on country of origin and some exporters like the USA have very strictly defined standards, others like Slovenia do not and leave it to the yards here.

How does trade discount work then? I am now a qualified carpenter and joiner, just not working as one, unfortunately... Would that also get me anything?

I doubt it. My experience is that arriving in a van or truck and being able to ask for things using the correct terminology helps "prove" your credentials some places. Others just want you to open an account. That means a business bank account, a printed letterhead (not just an inkjet jobby) and two trade credit references. Your discount will probably depend on the volume of trade you do with the merchant.

Scrit

 

[Chris Knight]

Olly,

Your best bet in buying wood at this stage is to find a yard where a yard hand will help to sort through the stacks (sometimes an appointment must be made to secure this help, depends on the yard) and then make friends with the guy. If he is experienced, they are usually more than happy to pass it on and they will make sure you take home some good wood. Ask every question you can think of - the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask!