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RogerS

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Once upon a time, you picked up your pen, wrote a letter to a company, put it in an envelope and posted it. A few days later it got there and they answered it. And a few more days later, their reply landed on your doormat.

There was such a leisurely pace to things and IMHO it was better.

Then some bright spark came along and said 'Hey,look. If I put your letter in this funny whirly thing and do this then your letter is there NOW. And if we wait an hour or so....maybe sooner...hey, here it comes. Lookie, lookie...their reply. Now ain't that great. No more waiting'

And so the 24/7 instantaneous, 'delivery today', 'what do you mean I won't have it tomorrow', 'why haven't you got it in stock' email, spam ridden world arrived.javascript:emoticon(':x')

Ummm.. maybe Alf's got the right idea. Perhaps I should sell me machines.javascript:emoticon(':?')
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Rsinden

I worked as an engineer in those days and I can asure you that this is a case of rose tinted spectacles. It was a frustrating age where one could not easily do business and problems remained unsolved for weeks rather than hours.

For example, back in 1989 I built lots of PCs (not for employment) but when I needed a patch for some buggy software, or a hard disk driver (when you bought a hard disk , you couldn't just plug it in and hey pretso!! - same for sound, graphics, mouse.....). I often had to write to a firm in America, or Europe and then await a 5 14" floppy disk in the post - which had often been bent in transit and thus ruined. Now I log on day-or-night and get the patch in seconds.

Whilst I see where your sentiment is coming from, I do not see that the argument holds much merit in the cold light of day

We move on for the benefit of mankind progress is sometimes good and sometimes bad but it is always progress
 

RogerS

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oooh...I have a sense that this one could run :wink:

I can claim even earlier experience than that! I designed and built my first three computers. The first was a 6800 based homebrew, the next a Z80 and the thirs 6502. But I don't remember much frustration from those days..the only frustration was from some UK manufacturers who assumed that 'they were the only people who knew about these things". But I digress.

How do you define 'progress'? Is Plug'n'play necessarily progress? What about 'featuritis' on most packages? Is that progress? How many people actually use more than 5% of Word? Yet, to support this 'progress' we end up having to make do with huge chunks of code consuming ever more memory and opening up even more security holes.

You state 'business issues could remain unsolved for weeks'...where's the rush? I worked in IT then as well and all I can remember was that things moved on at a more leisurely pace and no-one seemed to get their knickers in a twist because they couldn't get the answer yesterday.

Perhaps it is a broader sense of our time and society...the Now Now Now society. I want it NOW. I don't want to wait. I don't want to wait to earn the money to by it or for my parents to buy it for me. I will steal the money for it 'cos I want it NOW[/quote]
 

Alf

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Once upon a time you could write a letter in the morning and get an answer in the afternoon post... Mind you, once upon a time you could get a Stanley #1 for 12/6 too. I like rose-tinted specs; easily my favourite sort. :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

tim

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I am massively in favour of all progress through any form be it scientific or artistic. What has been highlighted by the increase in speed of information is generally the corresponding decrease in lack of planning..

If you knew something was going to take a minimum of 6 weeks to arrive, you needed to think about asking for it at least 6 weeks before you needed it, now the assumption is that everyone is waiting to satisfy their every need 24/7.

The problem is not the technology but how its used.

T
 

tim

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It seems to me that the thing that always slowed business issues down was getting the right senior people together to agree on a decision - could take weeks to sort out diaries. ie again planning and process. God I hate that word, process... and thats why I left industry!

T
 

Waka

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Scientific inovation is all well and good in its place, but I have some concerns.
It doesn't solve the worlds hunger problem, or it hasn't so far. It doesn't stop wars, only makes weapons more sophisticated.

What real benifit to mankind is going to Mars or Jupiter.

And if mobile phones are such an advancement to business, why didn't we see hundreds of travelling salesman outside the old telephone call boxes before the introduction of MP's.

Only my opinion, so don't shoot the messenger.

I'll call for a taxi now.
 

tim

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And if mobile phones are such an advancement to business, why didn't we see hundreds of travelling salesman outside the old telephone call boxes before the introduction of MP's.
Actually we did. Most of the sales guys I used to have working for me would have to do exactly that - queue outside phone boxes - normally at motorway service stations - if the queue was too long they'd either wait or go on to the next one - not exactly productive.

Without being too over the top, if its your opinion then you should be prepared to stand by it not say 'don't shoot the messenger'! You may be the messenger but you also wrote the message :wink:

And without really wanting to stir up a huge hornet's nets, its a pretty well known fact that a amssive proportion of scientific innovation has come from military development - not good I know but at least some good can come of it.

The food shortages etc etc are sadly I believe down to man's inhumanity to man. It has been ever thus and no amount of invention is going to solve that just reeducation and social acceptance and a lot of time.

T
 

Gill

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I'm doing a lovely line in tin helmets right now, courtesy of Alf. Here's a free sample that I'm sure will come in useful as the thread develops:



Gill :)
 

frank

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gill i need one for in your bunker (re the game) a lot of blokes are waving leeks and shouting words i dont understand at me .
 

Newbie_Neil

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Hi Frank

frank":2h1no3kr said:
gill i need one for in your bunker (re the game) a lot of blokes are waving leeks and shouting words i dont understand at me .
Wot, words like "was there a game this evening"? :D :D

Cheers
Neil
 

trevtheturner

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Good thread, this. So what exactly is 'progress?'

Much of business and public services today seems to be 'corporate' which seems to mean that decisions are taken collectively, but then when things go wrong nobody is at fault or to blame.

I chose to opt out of the ME,ME,ME, NOW, NOW, NOW materialistic society when I retired at 48, fourteen years ago. Best decision I ever took! I don't buy anything that I don't have the 'readies' for, so no need to worry about bills dropping through the letterbox. Don't have, or want, Sky, playstation, Ipoddy thingy, etc., but do have a few modern things which are of use to me. (Mobile 'phone I take out only when I think I might need it, but not to be at everybody's beck and call - less than ten have my mobile number! - but obviously appreciate the value of one for those working 'on the road').

So what exactly is 'progress' - us feeding big business? Lots these days seem to want to lend me thousands of pounds or give me credit cards (new car, home improvements, holiday NOW, NOW, and pay back later + lots extra) - for whose benefit? Certainly not mine, and they can go take a running jump! :lol: :lol:

Cheers,

Trev - living in happy contentment in rural Herefordshire.

(happiness is wanting what you have - not having what you want)
 
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Anonymous

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When I left school and applied for jobs I had to use a cranky old typewriter to type out my hopeful application. Looking back at some of those old letters from 30 years ago (I do keep one or two momentos) I shudder at the way characters don't line up going across the page, and if you made a typo, well....

One thing I feel we've lost today with our switched on society is that if you apply for a job you never get any response at all - unless you are selected for interview. Now that for me indicates bad courtesy, but the stupid thing is that all those years ago it took someone maybe 15 minutes to type a letter saying "very sorry, you are going to be really disappointed now...", then the envelope, stick a stamp on it and make their way to the out-tray.

Whereas today it takes all of 15 seconds to bring up some standard letter and it's on its way. Progress? Can I have me ball back please and go back to the 1960's?

Andrew
 

tim

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I think that Andrew and Trev are saying similar things to me - its not so much the technology - its the users.

T
 
G

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Do the anti-progress lobby on this thread really believe that times in the past were so good. I can remember when to own a car you had to be fairly wealthy or a doctor,the same for a telephone.People were crippled with polio or died ither thousands from T.B or any number of diseases. The Good Old Times were only good if you could afford it.I know the Rose tinted glasses game is fun but in reality there wasn't much rose tinting in my childhood but I did enjoy it all the same.
 
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Anonymous

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rsinden":25ch05wy said:
oooh...I have a sense that this one could run :wink:

I can claim even earlier experience than that! I designed and built my first three computers. The first was a 6800 based homebrew, the next a Z80 and the thirs 6502.
I still have my Sinclzir Z80 in loft, and an old atari :D

I like your thread by the way :wink:
 
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Anonymous

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Waka":1ldkokdg said:
I'll call for a taxi now.
Shouldn't you be texting for a taxi these days?

Every where I look people refuse to be alone (texting) or bored (texting). Boredom at a bus stop is good for you, the mind wanders and great thoughts might occur. But NO!!! these days being alone is an excuse to reach for the mobile.
When I used public transport, I read about 4-5 books per week whilst sitting on buses, I educated. entertained and enlightened my self and enjoyed every minute of it. I did not inflict pointless, ridiculously abbreviated messages on friends just because I was on a bus :twisted:

I see people walking down streets with their hands on those STUPID little mobile phones. Why not be alone for a while :twisted: Look around you or, perish the thought, talk to someone in the flesh!!!!!!

When I was a senior engineer with a company about 20 years ago I had the hugest mobile phone in the history of the world, it must have weighed the same as a brick as it's dimension were very similar! Then we moved to a - car phone - remember those?
Now these devices helped with our business and I could support my customers far better with them, and this is my point.; for business use mobile phones are probably essential, but I practically never use my mobile for social stuff and only my family and secretary have the number.

I SEE my friends, I don't text them incessantly

Mobile phones Aaaaarrrggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Sorry :oops:

Note to self - take medication regularly

Cheers

Tony (who has sent a total of 4 texts!! and hates ,texting grrrrrr)

PS the spell checker doesn't recognise 'texting' :lol: :lol:
 
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Anonymous

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Sat in a train coing home from London the other week. Young pimply thing opposite frantically tapping keys on mobile phone for approximately 40 minutes, intersperesed with various beeps and burps. We get off at same station. Young pimply thing is confronted by elderly person, who is obviously parent screaming 'Where the f*ing h*ll have you f*ing been?'. To which young pimply thing replies 'I sent you a text that I'd be late.....'
 
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