Howe

[Modernist]

“I fear that Merseyside is going to be much the hardest nut to crack,” he cautioned. “We do not want to find ourselves concentrating all the limited cash that may have to be made available into Liverpool and having nothing left for possibly more promising areas such as the West Midlands or, even, the North East.

As a Geordie that says it all really.

 

[RogerS]

A bit to obtuse for me, Brian. You'll have to explain a bit more.

 

[Harbo]

Release of 30yr old Gov. papers

 

[Gary]

And?

 

[theartfulbodger]

And?

Liverpool's ruined and the powers that be wonder if it needs a bottomless bit of money to fix it, money that could be better spend on more promising places in the UK, which are similarly ruined, but which show more potential.

 

[RogerS]

Release of 30yr old Gov. papers

I know but wasn't sure what Brian's point was. What Howe said could be taken many different ways. We dont know the context at the time that they were made. Of course, being a supporter of Saint Maggie, Howe is by definition cast out amongst the damned as far as Brian is concerned :wink:

 

[Modernist]

As Roger has observed my position re Thatcher et al is well documented however even by their standards to refer to the North East with the prefix "even the" after Liverpool and the W Mids gives an interesting insight into the priority afforded to Geordies.

I point this out for the information of others. Those of us who hail from up there are already too well aware. It is even more ironic that having failed to maintain much manufacturing up there and parachuting in a pile of gov paper pushing jobs (pre thatcher) it should now be once again at the epicentre of job loss in the current recession.

In the interests of balance I don't recall Blair doing much either but of course his focus was over the horizon or towards his pocket, whichever was the most appealing at the time.

 

[Max Power]

Ah yes Cherie and Tony :x the Bonny and Clyde of Downing Street. Phony Tony must surely hold the title of the biggest crook ever to hold the position of PM :evil:

 

[Digit]

What, Brian, has your opinion of Maggie got to do with what Howe said? And would it not be fairer to point out that Maggie disagreed and instead ordered a regeneration programme.
Please note I could not stand the woman.

Roy.

 

[Modernist]

What, Brian, has your opinion of Maggie got to do with what Howe said? And would it not be fairer to point out that Maggie disagreed and instead ordered a regeneration programme.
Please note I could not stand the woman.

Roy.

Well I think there was a connection IIRC :roll:

Hezza won the arguement

Happy New Year to all

 

[Digit]

It was one of a number of scenarios discussed by Cabinet, a case of 'thinking out side the box,' in modern parlance, nothing more, and as I pointed out, not acted upon.

Roy.

 

[Modernist]

It was one of a number of scenarios discussed by Cabinet, a case of 'thinking out side the box,' in modern parlance, nothing more, and as I pointed out, not acted upon.

Roy.

"one of a number of scenarios" - long in the tooth standard excuse. The whole issue was that it was even suggested, showing, as it does, utter contempt for the disadvantaged regions which, unsurprisingly, contribute little to the Tory vote count.

 

[Digit]

If you ever get to the stage of sitting in at a board meeting Brian you will find that considering all options for discussion is standard procedure. It is recognised amongst management that their decisions can only be as good as the information and ideas that they are based upon. Oftimes subjects for discussion, the agenda, is produced by others than those discussing it.
Current Cabinet meetings, we are informed, cover the eventual possiblity that the Euro will collapse, perhaps even the EU, there are reports that if this happens Britain's borders will be sealed, only a fool fails to consider all possible ideas.This subject could well have been put before the Cabinet, by, for example, the Treasury department.
I somehow doubt that cabinet meetings, now or in the past, started by someone asking, 'what shall we chat about today?'
At least Maggie had cabinet meetings, unlike certain PMs we know of.

Roy.

 

[Modernist]

If you ever get to the stage of sitting in at a board meeting Brian you will find that considering all options for discussion is standard procedure. It is recognised amongst management that their decisions can only be as good as the information and ideas that they are based upon. Oftimes subjects for discussion, the agenda, is produced by others than those discussing it.
Current Cabinet meetings, we are informed, cover the eventual possiblity that the Euro will collapse, perhaps even the EU, there are reports that if this happens Britain's borders will be sealed, only a fool fails to consider all possible ideas.This subject could well have been put before the Cabinet, by, for example, the Treasury department.
I somehow doubt that cabinet meetings, now or in the past, started by someone asking, 'what shall we chat about today?'
At least Maggie had cabinet meetings, unlike certain PMs we know of.

Roy.

Having been MD of my engineering company for the past 20 years I have attended the odd board meeting. My view is based on actual Tory policy over the years, which triggered the riots in question and will no doubt continue to do so as they impose policy which disproportionately favours the financial sector to the great expense of ordinary people and the economy in general.

No doubt your condescending comment above was based on the assumption that someone with my political views was unlikely to be a company director. I am pleased to say there are still some of us who actually care for the welfare of our employees along with the prosperity of the company. In fact if you look back in history much successful manufacturing business was based on this principle and the current economic disaster was brought about by departing from that to a service based model, which never held water, and was peddled by Thatcher, Joseph, Howe et al who remain responsible for the outcome.

Please do not assume from the above that I am a blind supporter of Labour. I support sensible policies from any party but regretfully there are precious few around at the moment.

 

[Digit]

which disproportionately favours the financial sector

Under Blair the percentage of wealth controlled by the top 2% of society rose from 17 to 21%! Were you aware of that?
As regards the welfare of employees you are also making assumptions about my relationships with them. When I left the company where I was talking about the place closed for the afternoon and filled the local pub! No! Not because they were glad to see the back of me.
As a Foreman all such were sent on a course about Man Management, 2 days holiday. I was the only one not sent. The WM said I didn't need to. I sacked one person in 8 yrs, he took me to Tribunal and they backed me and stated I had shown great tolerance and that I should have got rid of him earlier.
So perhaps we are both making assumptions?
But return to the point, you should therefore know that our Chancellor does not have to be a financier, Churchill was a case in point.
The opinions he states in Cabinet are formulated by experts, 'Whitehall Warriors,' permanent employees of the state who serve up info to which ever party is in power at that time.
How often, may I ask, have people blamed you for board room decisions that you may not have supported? It happens!

Roy.

 

[Benchwayze]

Come off it Brian.
How do you think we Brummies feel when every single piece of drama and/or wartime documentary mentions or features the North-East the North-West or the South and London? If you feel left out then I know the feeling too. it's like there's a big hole North of Watford, until you reach Sheffield.

With our Brummie accent, I can understand it a little, but things are improving. I just heard the best Brummie accent on telly for a long time! I.e. Paul Whitehouse, in his latest advert! :lol:

John

 

[Digit]

Civilisation ends just north of Watford according to some southerners John, and I'm a southerner!.

Roy.

 

[Scouse]

First let me say that I have no political allegiance what-so-ever, and personally, if that's what he felt, I don't blame Howe for the comments he made, and I speak from the position of being more than qualified to comment! :lol:

Liverpool in the early eighties was a bit of a hole, and from a position down south, most people would have turned their back too. Thank God for Hesseltine. Within a couple of years the place began to look and feel a lot different, and it continued to develop.

I wonder if, in some respects, Liverpool was a for-runner for redevelopment in Tyneside, Birmingham etc.

My feeling is that, as in life, sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can start to get better. It's just a shame that the image of a great city is harder to restore than it's infrastructure.

Scouse.

 

[Benchwayze]

I wonder if, in some respects, Liverpool was a for-runner for redevelopment in Tyneside, Birmingham etc.

Scouse.

You could have a point Scouse, but:

Birmingham has done nothing but 'reconstruct' since the second world war ended.
The Council did far more levelling of buildings than the Luftwaffe. They demolished one of the the largest self-supporting domes in Europe, when they pulled down the Victorian Public Library.

In my youth they 'rebuilt' the Bull-ring twice, before settling on it's present commercialised form; and they are still tinkering with that. Even blocks of flats I worked on during the early 60s have been levelled; replaced by modern, back-to-back three up three downs. Not much progress since the 1800s then? Just new bricks and cement, arranged in the same tried and tired way.

Maybe the tower blocks did need demolishing, but if so-called 'experts' wish to believe that it was the fabric of the buildings that caused the 'rot' in society, that's their problem. In fact for the first few years, life in most of the towers was very pleasant, a big improvement on Victorian terraces. Despite claims to the opposite, there was a strong sense of community. The 'rot' set in when the Councils couldn't afford to maintain the buildings properly, so that people didn't want to live in them any more. The rest, as they say....

I remember most of it too well. I was one of those charged with helping 'keep the lid on'. Toxteth wasn't the only place in our green and pleasant land that suffered rioting. Ask many Bristolians too.

I don't know who to blame, and by the same token I won't know who to reward with a vote when matters improve... probably not during my allotted span though!

John 8)

 

[Benchwayze]

Civilisation ends just north of Watford according to some southerners John, and I'm a southerner!.

Roy.

Funny you should say that Roy. Friend of mine invited a 'Cockney' relative up for a few days. This guy literally couldn't believe that Birmingham was in his words, 'Just like London', except they speak funny!'

Honest truth!

John :?