How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[Rorschach]

Your argument is based on wishful thinking....."lockdown is horrible, the alternative must've been better."

Your argument is based on wishful thinking. You can't possibly entertain the idea that there might be a better alternative because if that is true, that means the deaths that happened and the damage that will come could have been avoided/lessened. The idea we could be taking the wrong approach is inconceivable to you, that's your coping mechanism in this.
We both think the current situation is awful, but I think we could have done better, you think we could have done worse.

 

[Sandyn]

Very interesting. Next question has to be; why didn't Blair pick it up?

I think it's just shortsightedness of all governments to be able to plan far into the future. They are too busy playing short term politics.

 

[Jacob]

Do you think flares and crimpolene cardigans would be made compulsory.

Or LBDs?

 

[Nigel Burden]

Even better that they should catch it and discover the possibility that due to complications even if they survive they may have sustained damage which has effectively knocked years off their lives.

Is it any wonder that people died in care homes? They are generally just a big house or hotel if a posh one, residents in close proximity for meals and activities, staff and visitors in and out so a fertile breeding ground for infection. My MiL is still pretty fit at 93 and when her home got a couple of cases they confined all to their rooms, after 4 weeks the home was clear.
On the other hand my BiL very fit and reasonably healthy caught it and after 3 weeks on a ventilator died, they said even had he made it the damage done would make him an invalid.. my daughter's friend died last week no health issues whatsoever before Covid - aged 36.

My wife has been called in to work today as three carers were sent home after a positive lateral flow test.

They locked down immediately in the first wave with residents confined to their rooms and no visitors. They managed to keep covid out until November but now have it in the home despite the measures taken. Fortunately non of the residents had it badly and were not hospitalised, some were asymptomatic. It probably entered the home via one of the staff as my wife said some of them were still socialising, eighteenth birthday parties etc. and ignoring the guidelines.

Nigel.

 

[Droogs]

They did but they themselves admit that their protection of their care homes was inadequate and a lot of lives were lost there at the beginning.
They have certainly had a lot more freedom in the last 10 months however and were never overwhelmed as some said they would be. Some here though don't put a lot of value in freedom which is very disturbing, it's lucky they aren't in charge as things could be even worse than they are now.

That is due to the fact that Swedes unlike you have a general understanding of their own social responsibility to others and are more than willing for the most part to be compliant with the general advise to social distance unlike all the fannies swamping the beaches of the UK during the summer

 

[Ditch 08]

Just had a nightmare and Labour JC won the last election and his brother was Health Sec.

No C-19, no pandemic, no need to wear face masks, life was as normal. That is apart from dead people in the street.

Luck I woke up and BJ is still in power.

 

[Rorschach]

That is due to the fact that Swedes unlike you have a general understanding of their own social responsibility to others and are more than willing for the most part to be compliant with the general advise to social distance unlike all the fannies swamping the beaches of the UK during the summer

Oh no, you're one of them Bournemouth beach haters aren't you. What a shame you don't have any evidence to back up increases in infection due to it.

EXCLUSIVE: Bournemouth beach crowds did not lead to Covid spike | Local Government Chronicle (LGC)

The influx of an estimated 500,000 people to Bournemouth’s beaches last month did not lead to an increase in cases of Covid-19, the chief executive of

www.lgcplus.com

As an aside, how do you know how I behave in public? I wear a mask and social distance, I have limited contact with all but essential people since March. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't comply and do my part.

 

[Droogs]

Oh my appologies Rorschach, I didn't realize you were a hypocrite rather than just an internet troll. If I had known you don't actually practice the sh 1te you preach and are in fact just a Linsday Graheme wannabe, then I would have replied to all your posts in a much more understanding way

 

[Rorschach]

Oh my appologies Rorschach, I didn't realize you were a hypocrite rather than just an internet troll. If I had known you don't actually practice the sh 1te you preach and are in fact just a Linsday Graheme wannabe, then I would have replied to all your posts in a much more understanding way

Where have I advocated people break the law? Please do find it.

There is a difference between arguing for a change and breaking the law. Are you saying you want me to go around without a mask coughing on people? Having parties, testing my eyesight etc? I don't think so. I will continue to argue for the rules and policy to be changed, but until then I will comply with the law as I do in every other area in life.

 

[Jacob]

Just had a nightmare and Labour JC won the last election and his brother was Health Sec.

No C-19, no pandemic, no need to wear face masks, life was as normal. That is apart from dead people in the street.

Luck I woke up and BJ is still in power.

Yebbut it's not a nightmare and it's worse than your wildest dreams:
Gavin Williamson
Secretary of State for Education
Liz Truss
Secretary of State for International Trade
Michael Gove
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Leader of the House of Commons

And that's just tip of the ****berg!

 

[billw]

Luck I woke up and BJ is still in power.

Things you never thought you'd hear, part 154.

 

[billw]

Just as an aside, the BBC news just reported that in November there were nearly 4.5m people waiting for routine treatments on the NHS. Bloody hell. It's not a good time to fall ill.

It's things like this that are going to be worse than the virus itself.

 

[Woodmatt]

They seem to have got just about everything wrong,too slow to act,to loose with restrictions/lock down,too little preparation for this or any major outbreak of any sort.Having said all that I spoke with a relative in Canada yesterday and their government are hoping to get all over seventies vaccinated by late October which is some eight months after the UK so maybe our government are getting that bit right

 

[RobinBHM]

Yeah that's ok, no-one can ever suggest a path is wrong because we didn't know where the other path would lead

So the basis of your argument is quite simply:
lockdowns are a hunch, anti lockdowns are a hunch.

And you are saying: "I am very very certain, that anti lockdown is a better hunch."

By the way, there is no binary lockdown versus anti lockdown.

There is no single lockdown: lockdowns are really a combination of non pharmaceutical interventions. (NPI)

And a detailed study does show NPIs are effective:

"The emerging picture reveals that no one-size-fits-all solution exists, and no single NPI can decrease Rt below one. Instead, in the absence of a vaccine or efficient antiviral medication, a resurgence of COVID-19 cases can be stopped only by a suitable combination of NPIs, each tailored to the specific country and its epidemic age. These measures must be enacted in the optimal combination and sequence to be maximally effective against the spread of SARS-CoV-2 and thereby enable more rapid reopening"

Ranking the effectiveness of worldwide COVID-19 government interventions

Analysing over 50,000 government interventions in more than 200 countries, Haug et al. find that combinations of softer measures, such as risk communication or those increasing healthcare capacity, can be almost as effective as disruptive lockdowns.

www.nature.com

 

[RobinBHM]

I am fully aware that lockdowns will lower C19 deaths for as long as the lockdown is in effect

Oh I see

So you are using a non sequitur in your argument against lockdowns.

This is your argument:

1 we have a lockdown
2 Covid goes up, comes down, more or less goes away
3 another wave happens.
4 Rorschach concludes we must not have lockdowns because they aren't a permanent solution.

If you listened to viroligists, who have been saying the same thing for a year: they have been saying lockdowns are not a permanent solution, they are used to stop the bath tub overflowing. We have to repeat them until there is a vaccine.

 

[Jake]

Depends how he died, I imagined he overdosed on crack cocaine and loose women ................... or bored to death by internet warriors.

I do love me some passive-aggressive internet warrior.

 

[Jelly]

We'll never know because we never tried any alternatives.

And you've clearly not tested any alternatives to being alive, yet I seriously doubt you find that a persuasive argument to try not being so...



Many of your economic arguments could just as easily make the case that we should have closed our borders far earlier, implemented a much more stringent lockdown, legislated to provide a buffer against personal and business defaults and held the line until such time the virus was effectively defeated; then cracked on rebuilding our economy with the tried and tested approaches which made the new deal and the Marshall plan so successful.

Of course, that is an alternative which a number of antepodean and East Asian countries have tried... Which seems to have been far less damaging than the UK's half baked approach, or the US's confused and inconsistent free-for-all.


It's notable that the countries which have faired best are not those which are richest, or have the most resources, but those where there's a cultural norm of collective responsibility and placing the best interests of your community above narrow self-interest.

Which leads me to ask:

What exactly is it that makes you think that serving the short term interests of individuals is superior to the longer term interests of the community as a whole anyway?​

I'm firmly of the opinion that the rise and rise of mindless individualism and short term thinking is a cancer which left unchecked will see humanity's own hubris destroy itself.

 

[Rorschach]

Some people are very annoyed considering they are on the "winning side"

 

[doctor Bob]

I'm firmly of the opinion that the rise and rise of mindless individualism and short term thinking is a cancer which left unchecked will see humanity's own hubris destroy itself.

I like that. What should we do?
I'd like to think I do my bit especially for local community, however I have a business and would like to still have a business in a year. I'd also like to keep some of my life savings, not all but some of it. I'd also like to keep my guys jobs going.

 

[billw]

It's notable that the countries which have faired best are not those which are richest, or have the most resources, but those where there's a cultural norm of collective responsibility and placing the best interests of your community above narrow self-interest.

*ding*