Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
The point is - even if the blade is set too high and you are doing other things wrong, with two push sticks your hands are out if the way and they unlikely to come to harm.
How to use push sticks to cut wood safely on a table saw.
- Thread starter Cabinetman
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Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
I've had kick back at the beginning with a new TS. Cutting a bevel and the offcut got flung out like a crossbow bolt with enough force to stick it firmly into the plaster board about 4ft away.
Not had one since.
Yes, just once when ripping some Sapelle. It shot out and took the push stick out of my hand at the same time, it was a really good lesson in understanding the forces involved and why they say stand to the side.
I find Dougs reasoning about the blade height very interesting, and makes sense. Why do so many advocate keeping the blade so it just comes through the wood? I actually had to sketch this to get whats happening but as you say with the blade set low there are a lot of teeth in the cut, but with it set high it only cuts initially at the front until it passes the blade width and then cuts at rear as well but with far fewer teeth than with the blade set low. So would this mean with a higher tooth blade you can set high for ripping but then set low for say sheet material and therefore not have to change the blade?
It is really good to be having this discussion.
Thank you to Cabinetman for starting this discussion on push sticks and on tablesaw safety in general in this thread and others.
We all have to make our own decisions. Having these discussions helps us to look for the 'why' rather than blindly following what is shown on YouTube.
Thank you to Cabinetman for starting this discussion on push sticks and on tablesaw safety in general in this thread and others.
We all have to make our own decisions. Having these discussions helps us to look for the 'why' rather than blindly following what is shown on YouTube.
powertools
Established Member
There are so many variables when using a table saw safely I just think that it is plain wrong to give out the impression that using 2 push sticks of not the best design will enable you to use the saw in complete safety.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
"Complete" safety maybe not, but with two push-sticks any shape or size is going to be safer than without them.
I favour the very common basic design, which is cleverer than it looks. Make copies from mdf or cheap 12mm ply:
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powertools
Established Member
I'm sorry but I am going to dispute that. If anybody tries to cut lets say a 600x600 sheet of ply in half using those push sticks they may end up having to put their underwear in the wash before the end of the day.
The first priority in table safety is to make certain that the saw is set up as it should be followed by using the correct blade for the job in hand and using a sharp blade and setting it at the correct height for the job in hand and maybe then we could start talking push sticks.
It is wrong to suggest that regardless of anything else as long as you are using 2 sticks you are good to go.
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Nobody said that.
Safer yes, but not necessarily a better outcome in other respects!
Are you suggesting that people shouldn't use two push sticks?
PS can't see a prob with halving 600mm square ply particularly? Yes someone could get it wrong, but it'd be the ply getting a gash rather than the fingers.
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Cabinetman
Established Member
So, as I asked you last time when you criticised my post, what do you use if you don’t use two push sticks ?
You are right of course that the saw needs to be set up correctly and all the other things but at least with two push sticks you are so far away from the blade as not to be needing to go to hospital.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
From my experience I would add:
I have experienced kick back a few times. Each time it has been something like you might find in knotty oak where the saw suddenly goes from a soft part to a hard part and it has happened and is all over before you can react. For this reason I never allow anyone, including myself, to stand directly in the cut line.
When cutting long pieces - for example ripping a 3 or 4 metre board down, I will either get help or fix up infeed and outfeed rollers. I think a lot of table saw issues arise from people trying to steer and support wood that gets unbalanced on the saw.
The biggest safety tool by far is patience. Taking care to check that the wood is properly positioned, and all body parts are in safe places, before turning the saw on. I complete the cut and wait for the saw to come to a full stop before I do anything else. This takes a few seconds extra but stops inattention around a slowing but still potentially dangerous blade.
I use the plastic push sticks pictured by Jacob. They are cheap, large enough to keep hands well away, and effective tools. The cranked handle makes life more comfortable.
I have experienced kick back a few times. Each time it has been something like you might find in knotty oak where the saw suddenly goes from a soft part to a hard part and it has happened and is all over before you can react. For this reason I never allow anyone, including myself, to stand directly in the cut line.
When cutting long pieces - for example ripping a 3 or 4 metre board down, I will either get help or fix up infeed and outfeed rollers. I think a lot of table saw issues arise from people trying to steer and support wood that gets unbalanced on the saw.
The biggest safety tool by far is patience. Taking care to check that the wood is properly positioned, and all body parts are in safe places, before turning the saw on. I complete the cut and wait for the saw to come to a full stop before I do anything else. This takes a few seconds extra but stops inattention around a slowing but still potentially dangerous blade.
I use the plastic push sticks pictured by Jacob. They are cheap, large enough to keep hands well away, and effective tools. The cranked handle makes life more comfortable.
doctor Bob
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I have a sliding panel saw, I prefer to have the fence at the begining of the table and push work into it.
It comes from cutting large panels and having the ability to support all four corners. Most big sliding saws are set up this way.
For cross cuts I back up with a sacrifical stick, (order past blade:- fence, work, sacrifical stick) which gives a cleaner cut.
We use hundreds of meters of framework, cutting out knots and splits so always plenty of waste sticks. Each stick can be reused many many times, as you just knick into them.
Nothing wrong with 2 push sticks (personally I'm not a fan) but as a commercial workshop, I'd rather my chaps used alternative methods to get the same results.
Well done for posting it up Cabinetman, very brave, as you can see it's like feeding yourself to the wolves
It comes from cutting large panels and having the ability to support all four corners. Most big sliding saws are set up this way.
For cross cuts I back up with a sacrifical stick, (order past blade:- fence, work, sacrifical stick) which gives a cleaner cut.
We use hundreds of meters of framework, cutting out knots and splits so always plenty of waste sticks. Each stick can be reused many many times, as you just knick into them.
Nothing wrong with 2 push sticks (personally I'm not a fan) but as a commercial workshop, I'd rather my chaps used alternative methods to get the same results.
Well done for posting it up Cabinetman, very brave, as you can see it's like feeding yourself to the wolves
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Safest approach is to just accept that no machinery is really safe because they have the ability to injure as soon as you stop paying attention and concentrating, think of the sticks as long extensions to your hands and as long as the sticks are in use your hands must be away from the blade. I have used a similar approach in machine safety, where an operator has to use two buttons, a left and a right to start a machine operation so you know where their hands are, or more importantly where they are not.
Thats the beauty of a professional table saw with a sliding table, the right machine for the job wheras us mere mortals have to make do with more basic saws.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Wolves, I know what you mean haha. But if it saves one finger it’s well worth it. Ian
skeetstar
Established Member
Table saws frighten me, so I am very careful with mine.
I use the plastic push stick that it came, but my usual practice is push stick and feather board. I see the OP doesn't have a groove that would suit a feather board.
Is a feather board a good alternative to the second stick?
(That said, I have been known to use to push sticks as well as tge f board).
I use the plastic push stick that it came, but my usual practice is push stick and feather board. I see the OP doesn't have a groove that would suit a feather board.
Is a feather board a good alternative to the second stick?
(That said, I have been known to use to push sticks as well as tge f board).
Jacob
Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Not 'alternative to' but good in addition to using two sticks - unless you are trying to use your saw with one hand behind your back!
Well what is the way to go? You still have not said
Cabinetman
Established Member
I’ve never tried one but I suppose it just has the same effect as the push stick in my left hand, just not quite so controllable? I suppose you have to set it up for the thickness of the piece of wood each time.
It’s good that you’re careful and I suppose confidence builds over time as long as it doesn’t lead to complacency. Ian
A couple of good keywords there.
Confidence is requisite, as a lack of can increase some dangers (i.e: not holding a workpiece firmly enough).
Complacency; to never become whilst maintaining confidence. As a safety net, I always ask myself the question
"am I being complacent ?"
RobinBHM
Established Member
There is no one safe solution, I use 2 push sticks, 1 push stick, no push stick; each dependent on workpiece and type of cut.
