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stuartpaul

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You know when you tell the missus 'just tell me what you want and I'll make it'?

Well she has and now I've got to work out how to put it all together! :shock: :shock:

A pair of wardrobes with drawers under. Just over 2m tall, 580mm deep and 1100mm wide.

I'm thinking either 12mm MDF with 6mm glued on to mimic the panelling or using poplar and manufacturing 'proper' panels with 6mm mdf or ply. Worried that both approaches wont provide the strength for quite of lot of hanging clothes which weight wise adds up.

Had some issues in the past with planting on 6mm, - seemed that the tension of the glued strips caused warping. Also think the panelling will look too deep, - thinking about 4mm or thereabouts.

Did think about 18mm mdf and routing the panels but life is far too short to take that much further!

I'm concerned about fixing full extension drawer runners as they'll need to be beefy to carry full weight and they're wide (1100mm). Drawers will almost certainly be 12mm birch ply (results of a previous post). I also have to make sure I've got enough 'meat' for the hinges, - probably clip on or similar.

I know people on here make this sort of thing for a living so hoping for some pointers please!
 

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Waka

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Nice project, I've made things like this in the past.

The first thing you might want to consider is making it in two parts, the drawer section then the top section, then marry the two. This solves a couple of problems, the first being the construction and secondly moving it into position.

Regarding wood choice I can't comment because I don't use MDF, but if you were to use hardwood, this would be my construction method:

I'd start with a panelled back for both the lower and upper parts, I use hardwood planned down to 19mm with a 6mm faced panel.

Depending on the depth I would either use solid sides or panelled.
Doors would be panelled, this saves weight, you can then use either kitchen hinges or piano hinges, which I prefer.
For the drawer divides I use a lattice frame from back to front. Regarding the full extension drawer runners, you'll have no problem, you can get some (which I've used) that will take large loads.

This is not really a big job, although challenging if you've never done anything like this. If you want to come have a look at some cabinets that I've completed then you're more than welcome.
 

fluffflinger

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I agree make it in two sections.

Probably the simplest method would be 18mm or 22mm MRMDF with 6mm mrmdf panels. Simply groove the rail and stiles and use a piece of the panel material as a loose tenon. I claim no exclusive rights to this method, infact Jason B of this parish was my guide in the method.

See image of his Shaker door method

PICT0044.jpg


The advantages of MDF are that it will not move so you can glue the panel in and this creates a bullet proof and stable door/panel and it paints beutifully, although poplar also takes paint really well.

A 6mm grooving bit in the router table and you can run a set of doors very quickly. You could do it with a hand held router if you have no table.

I recently made a set of doors using this method and dressed the inside of the panels with some simple window bead similar to this;

B8168_120710_00_PP_300Wx300H.jpg


Hand painted they looked really good and I prefer them to the plain flat shaker doors.

The rest of the build should be fairly simple. I like the sketch up images and they will look good in any material.
 

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Willy

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fluffflinger":3njlzlj4 said:
I agree make it in two sections.

Probably the simplest method would be 18mm or 22mm MRMDF with 6mm mrmdf panels. Simply groove the rail and stiles and use a piece of the panel material as a loose tenon. I claim no exclusive rights to this method, infact Jason B of this parish was my guide in the method.

See image of his Shaker door method



The advantages of MDF are that it will not move so you can glue the panel in and this creates a bullet proof and stable door/panel and it paints beutifully, although poplar also takes paint really well.

A 6mm grooving bit in the router table and you can run a set of doors very quickly. You could do it with a hand held router if you have no table.

I recently made a set of doors using this method and dressed the inside of the panels with some simple window bead similar to this;



Hand painted they looked really good and I prefer them to the plain flat shaker doors.

The rest of the build should be fairly simple. I like the sketch up images and they will look good in any material.
Any reason why this method would be better than "faking" the effect with a 12mm board with a 6mm overlaid "border" flush trimmed with the router? That is how I plan to make my kitchen cabinet doors.
 

stuartpaul

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Thanks Gents,

I should have mentioned earlier that it was always going to be a two part build. I simply wouldn't be able to get it in the house otherwise.

It's going to be painted Waka so mdf is probably the most cost effective option for me (I can also hide my 'opportunities for improvement' easier!).

Richard, - I had strangely enought found JasonB's method via my friend google! I reckon I can make sides, doors and drawer fronts using that method and get pretty decent results.

Willy, - I've experienced quite a bit of warping when planting 6mm onto 12mm. I think the effect of the surface tension from the glue (similar to veneering) is chiefly responsible.

Thanks again.
 

Newbie_Neil

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Hi,

stuartpaul":8ximj57j said:
Richard, - I had strangely enought found JasonB's method via my friend google! I reckon I can make sides, doors and drawer fronts using that method and get pretty decent results.
Do you have a link?

Thanks,
Neil
 

fluffflinger

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Willy this is what I t=consider but wiser heads will be along soon I'm sure.

Much quicker for one and it looks more authentic than the flat reverse side of the method you describe.

You are virtually cutting up the same amount of components but gluing up is so much simpler. I would imgine that gluing up applied faces would involve problems with the panels sliding around on the glue, uless you are intending to set the panels with brads and that then means holes to fill before painting. The method I used is self squaring and requires no work afterwards. I think the most common method is 22mm rail and stiles and a 9mm panel that's what I did and it was a piece of cake.

Before you start I'd check around on the forum. I've never used the lay on method you describe but if you review the threads on the forum that describe mdf shaker door construction there are many mentions of people using your method finding that the doors warp. I guess that is becase of the disimilar thickness of material either side of the glue line.

I'm no pro but I made a set of kitchen doors in a day (25 doors). It took a while to get them glued up but that was a lack of clamps issue.
 

fluffflinger

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Neil the method is simplicity itself.

Cut your rails and stiles and panels. Then run all the long edges of the rails and stiles through a router table set up with a grooving bit the width of you panel, height of bit is usally centred in the board. Then run the ends of the rails though the same set up. Cut some loose tenons double the width of the depth of your groove and a length equal to the width of you rails. Glue in all the grooves, and pop it all together, you can see the arrangement of the loose tenon etc in the picture in my post above. Couple of clamps and a quick wipe of glue squeeze out and you are done.

Simples (ish)
 

James-1986

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I'd avoid using that method of shaker doors with solid timber, I've seen too many that have failed joints and buckled stiles.
 

Willy

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fluffflinger":26erebzx said:
Willy this is what I t=consider but wiser heads will be along soon I'm sure.

Much quicker for one and it looks more authentic than the flat reverse side of the method you describe.

You are virtually cutting up the same amount of components but gluing up is so much simpler. I would imgine that gluing up applied faces would involve problems with the panels sliding around on the glue, uless you are intending to set the panels with brads and that then means holes to fill before painting. The method I used is self squaring and requires no work afterwards. I think the most common method is 22mm rail and stiles and a 9mm panel that's what I did and it was a piece of cake.

Before you start I'd check around on the forum. I've never used the lay on method you describe but if you review the threads on the forum that describe mdf shaker door construction there are many mentions of people using your method finding that the doors warp. I guess that is becase of the disimilar thickness of material either side of the glue line.

I'm no pro but I made a set of kitchen doors in a day (25 doors). It took a while to get them glued up but that was a lack of clamps issue.
Thanks for the response.

I'm surprised they warp, but I will bow to the experience of the masses.
I'd planned to pin them during glueup with a headless pinner - barely leaves a mark and wouldn't need filling.

Anyway I'll definitely read up. Thanks again. Back to topic for the OP :)
 

jasonB

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Stuart PM'd me about this but I thought I would reply here as it may be useful to others.

For the doors I would go with 22mm MRMDF styles and rails and a 9mm panel, 18 & 6 is OK on kitchen doors but feels a bit flimsy on taller wardrobe doors. Method as above groove 10-12mm deep.

The same method could be used on the draw fronts but to give you something to screw the drawbox to use a rebated panel so the back is completely flush, the drawbox will hide any joint.

The same panel construction is not so good for the carcases as it makes it hard to fit drawrunners, hanging rails, shelf pegs etc to the inside so on the carcase I would go with a 12mm full size board and plant on 6mm styles & rails. The layon doors will hide any risk of the edge joint ghosting through over time.

J
 

stuartpaul

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Thanks Jason,

I'd already identifed the drawer runner issue and was going to use a spacer to fill that gap. The hanging rails would be hung from the top which will be 18mm mdf so I don't expect an issue (!!).

My concern with planted on 6mm rails/stiles is the warping issue outlined above. I've had quite a lot of deflection on a 12/6 door in the past. Have you any experience of this happening?

Stuart
 

Carlneedshelp

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Hi

I've been directed to this link and have a few questions. I have a plunger router and want to so the 22mm stile and rails and 9mm panels. I've seen suggested that the groove is done to 10-12mm. I've looked for the router bit needed and can see 32mm and 35mm. What is the exact bit that I need and as a novice never having used a router, how can i ensure that they only go in 10-12mm?

Also, I was thinking of setting up a rig so that I can do two pieces at once just by passing it through the middle of the two pieces that are held in place by clamps. Is this wise?

Thanks

Carl
 

woodchip

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Carlneedshelp":31rdpju3 said:
Hi

I've been directed to this link and have a few questions. I have a plunger router and want to so the 22mm stile and rails and 9mm panels. I've seen suggested that the groove is done to 10-12mm. I've looked for the router bit needed and can see 32mm and 35mm. What is the exact bit that I need and as a novice never having used a router, how can i ensure that they only go in 10-12mm?

Also, I was thinking of setting up a rig so that I can do two pieces at once just by passing it through the middle of the two pieces that are held in place by clamps. Is this wise?

Thanks

Carl
Select a suitable cutter from this list

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Onl ... r_134.html

And an arbour

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Onl ... d_133.html

And a bearing

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Onl ... gs_17.html

Do not do two pieces at once, you will not be able to space them the correct distance apart and one of the cuts would be a climb cut (google climb cut) which could lead to kickback
 

petermillard

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Just to add to what woodchip said, this is best done on a router table, or with the router slung under a bench or some kind - someone mentioned this in your other thread. You need to groove the short ends of the rails to accept the loose tenon, and this can be difficult to do freehand.

Cheers, Pete
 
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