How come Norm gets away without using a riving knife

[gidon]

OK - fair enough when he's not ripping - but I've always been told the wood could bind at the back of the blade and result in kick back without a riving knife when ripping. But I've never seen him use one or mention them. And he doesn't seem to get kick back.
In fact the only table saw "rule" he seems to uphold is to not use the fence and mitre gauge together. It makes me cringe when I see him lean over the blade, or push a piece directly over the blade with his hand when cutting a dado.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Anonymous]

I had never noticed that before, but you're right.

I've only ever had problems with binding on softer woods at > 3" thickness (cost me a new band saw blade). Norm usually deals in <2" and uses mainly hardwoods. Saying that, I always have my riving knife fitted on my table saw.

 

[Anonymous]

Gidon,

Call me an old cynic, but could it be that he does get kick back, you just never get to see it. Editing's a wonderful thing... :wink:

Anyway, in the US they don't have riving knives as we know them; they have "Splitters" which I believe don't rise and fall with the blade like our riving knives do. Whatever, I'm glad to hear you cringe. I do too; mainly when I hear that newbies don't cringe when he does that.

Cheers, Jester

 

[gidon]

I've never removed the riving knife on my saw - mainly because it's such a fiddle getting it getting it in the right position again. It's interesting what you say about thicker wood - that makes sense. I think I'll leave it in position.

I need to get/make myself a decent router table so I don't feel tempted to remove that guard and riving knife though. The one I built a year or so ago is quite natty - clamps in my vice - but it's too small for anything proper!

I think you could be right - he must get kick back sometimes. He's got a decent sized gut to protect him though!

He's incredibly sure handed though - so I don't cringe as much as I would if I saw myself doing it!

 

[Anonymous]

Fortunately my Elu table saw has a riving knife which is simple to adjust as I change from 315mm ripping blade to a 300mm 96-tooth balde for fine work. It is also totally separate from the blade guard holder, so it is possible for me to remove the guard to gut grooves

 

[sawdustalley]

Not another topic about norm

Well I used my tablesaw for about a year without guard or knife. never had kickback !

I was an silly person and now 89% of the time use the guard and riving knife !

 

[gidon]

Sorry! But I can't resist. I've heard about his shows for ages and have just recently managed to watch and record some. They are very inspiring.

 

[kityuser]

I`m not really sure that i understand how kick-back can be achieved without a riving knife, surely kickback is caused by trying to bind the blade up against a solid body (such as a fence) ie by using a mitre gauge and a fence.

I have fabricated a jig from one of the "custom woodworking books" that I`ve bourght for cutting tennons on a saw table. It rides in one of the mitre slots, both hands are kept FAR away from the blade (behind some 3/4 ply)which i really like *safety*, how would such a jig be used with a riving knife ??

 

[Charley]

There are many forms of kick back on a tablesaw and one of the most common is what gidon mentioned, when the kerf closes behind the blade of course this can't happen if you have the riving knife in place

If anyone ever thinks about risking not using a riving knife please go here: http://www.woodworking2.org/AccidentSurvey/search.htm, select table saw and enter 'kickback' ***Warning the storys there could put you off woodworking for life :?

I have fabricated a jig from one of the "custom woodworking books" that I`ve bourght for cutting tennons on a saw table. It rides in one of the mitre slots, both hands are kept FAR away from the blade (behind some 3/4 ply)which i really like *safety*, how would such a jig be used with a riving knife ??
On the TS2000 you can drop the riving knife down to the same level as the blade.

 

[kityuser]

jesus, i feel ill

instead of a riving knife, would it not be possible to have a "pin" machined onto the table behind the blade to keep the kerf width of the blade in the timber just cut, but also allowing me to use a jig which passes over the blade?

ie the pin diameter matches the width of the kerf

the other option i suppose is a riving knife that is removeable when i want to use a jig

 

[Anonymous]

riving knife alternatives depend on the saw. A lot of saws can not adjust the riving knife and it forms part of the mount for the guard.

Others have a separate knife which is adjustable and so can be lowered to the height of the wood being sawn, thus allowing many jigs to be used

 

[kityuser]

these are all good (and very valid ) points i shall consider when buying my new table saw.

i don`t suppose the delta saw i was considering has a riving knife that can be raised/lowered?

I`m sure it could be modified to allow such a function (a good mate of mine has a metal work shop)

 

[Anonymous]

If anyone ever thinks about risking not using a riving knife please go here: http://www.woodworking2.org/AccidentSurvey/search.htm select table saw and enter 'kickback' ***Warning the storys there could put you off woodworking for life :?

Wot! - no pictures? :twisted:

 

[kityuser]

christ!!! are the descriptions not enough?

i was "unlucky" enough to have a grinder (angle grinder, big one) kick back on me after binding up on some metal, it entered my little finger at the last knuckle and tore the joint apart (the end was hanging on by skin).
I still shudder to think how lucky i was not to loose every finger on my right hand :shock: :shock: :shock:

after having a metal pin inserted up the middle of my little finger (not unlike a sawing needle) and being in agony for 4 weeks (yes ..... they pulled the pin out from the middle of my finger with no anastetic :shock: )
I`m not too keen to have any more accidents.

joking completely aside, safety surely has to be paramount, anyone that is prepared to advise me on safety at any point (and is of course giving good safe advise) has my respect.

 

[gidon]

stevenprigg,
I have the Delta saw you're considering (see my other response to your ferm or delta post) - but it's in storage at the moment (moving house) so I can't remember if you can adjust the height of the riving knife. I think not. And also the guard attaches to the riving knife. Bottom line - not very handy for jigs!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Anonymous]

My table Saw is an Elu 3151 Saw King with adjustable knife & removable guard, so its good for jigs. It doesn't have a mitre slot, but uses a runner along the side of the table so you can mount the fence on at 90 deg to the blade - similar effect, different mechanism

 

[kityuser]

purchase of the delta and modification would make it a cheaper option than buying a more expensive saw though

 

[Anonymous]

True, I was lucky enough to pick my Elu up 2nd hand on eBay - have you thought about 2nd hand?

 

[kityuser]

not really considered it, when ever i search ebay theres only ever adverts such as:
"5 forstner bits as new 25.99 "

I suppose I could convert the jig to be used on my router table (ride in the mitre gauge slot).

or i could just hold on for a more expensive saw. problem is that money is tight (as always ) and I`m impatient.

I wish i could afford one of those cast-iron top babies...................

 

[gidon]

I wish i could afford one of those cast-iron top babies...................

there's one going on Ebay at the moment for £820 last I looked. What a bargain(!)