Hollow and Round sole forming

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
Morning ….

My set of H&Rs is coming on, now 1/4 of the way there with the basics, every one I do gets quicker and better.

But I need to form the soles accurately and there’s a reasonable chance I will get it wrong and ruin them. Obviously I only need to do the rounds. I’m thinking of planing the basic shape then 3d printing some 60deg “sanders” to finish the soles.

Any other brilliant ideas?!

Steve
 

Attachments

  • A26CC9CE-0C9D-4B69-8EDD-A2EA9E47DAF6.jpeg
    A26CC9CE-0C9D-4B69-8EDD-A2EA9E47DAF6.jpeg
    208.4 KB · Views: 0

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
2,505
Location
Derbyshire
What's the problem?
The usual way to form rounds, with hand tools, is to draw or scribe the profile at each end of the blank and then join up the lines with a plane or two.
Done it often, though not for moulding planes.
Do they need sanding? If so I'd use the two handed whole or half sheet thing where you pull the sheet side to side over the round edge like drying your back with a bath towel. Make sure you don't lose the original marks until the end.
 

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
What's the problem?
The usual way to form rounds, with hand tools, is to draw or scribe the profile at each end of the blank and then join up the lines with a plane or two.
Done it often, though not for moulding planes
The problem is, I want to get it right first time and be dead accurate.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
2,505
Location
Derbyshire
The problem is, I want to get it right first time and be dead accurate.
You only need to be accurate enough. In any case the profile you eventually plane will depend on the blade itself, not the plane body.
 

Droogs

Is that chisel shar ... Ow
Joined
14 Mar 2013
Messages
5,434
Reaction score
2,398
Location
Edinburgh
If you are making a full set or or sets then have you considered making a jig? A bracket in the shape of a squared off U at the bottom that has a fixed centre on side and an adjustable screw in centre on the other (sort of like a G clamp. When you want to make your round mark the center of the diameter on each end of the blank and using a fixed belt sander bring the flat bottom face of the blank up against the belt. Secure the jig in place and then turn on the sander. Then slowly lift the back of the plane blank until vertical, turn the blank over and repeat. This will give you repeatable precision and at any size you need.
 

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
If you are making a full set or or sets then have you considered making a jig? A bracket in the shape of a squared off U at the bottom that has a fixed centre on side and an adjustable screw in centre on the other (sort of like a G clamp. When you want to make your round mark the center of the diameter on each end of the blank and using a fixed belt sander bring the flat bottom face of the blank up against the belt. Secure the jig in place and then turn on the sander. Then slowly lift the back of the plane blank until vertical, turn the blank over and repeat. This will give you repeatable precision and at any size you need.
i like the idea of the jig, but one would have to make sure the distance from the sander belt was very accurate and consistent.

I realised that I can bore extremely accurate holes on my metal lathe, +/- .001”. So I could bore out a hole in a rod say 1” minus the thickness of the sandpaper, then cut it in half and use that as a “rubber” to finish the round nicely. Perhaps.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
2,505
Location
Derbyshire
The problem is, I want to get it right first time and be dead accurate.
Well yes. That's why I'd do it by hand, to accurate marks. I can't see a problem at all.
The round profiles would be a simple bit of elementary woodwork. I guess the other parts of a plane would be more demanding. I'd do them first with the rounding as the last job.
 

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
Well yes. That's why I'd do it by hand, to accurate marks. I can't see a problem at all.
The round profiles would be a simple bit of elementary woodwork. I guess the other parts of a plane would be more demanding. I'd do them first with the rounding as the last job.
Well I’m sure you are way more experienced than me (total novice) but knowing me I will mess it up. I suppose the only way to learn is to try. Perhaps I should practice extensively before I go for it.

Making the accurate marks is ok, I will have circle templates etc. What process would you use? Tips and tricks? Etc
 

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
Actually the mortises were really hard at first, I went through quite A few before I got the hang of it. Still not perfect but getting there.
 

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
2,505
Location
Derbyshire
Well I’m sure you are way more experienced than me (total novice) but knowing me I will mess it up. I suppose the only way to learn is to try. Perhaps I should practice extensively before I go for it.

Making the accurate marks is ok, I will have circle templates etc. What process would you use? Tips and tricks? Etc
Practice first perhaps. Make a short length of 2" diameter dowel? No 5 plane ?
Mark 2" circle each end of a blank.
Plane four sides square until near touching the marks.
Plane off corners to make octagon near touching the marks.
Plane off corners to make 16 sided.
Plane off corners, sand, making sure not to obliterate marks.
If your planing skills aren't up to it I still think it would be quicker to get up to speed with a plane, rather than over-thinking elaborate jigs and crafty wheezes!
 

Tris

What am I doing here?
Joined
28 Nov 2018
Messages
560
Reaction score
369
Location
Moreton in marsh
Couldn't you drill a hole of the right circumference in a piece of plate, then cut it in half to use as a profile scraper? Ink up a straightedge and rub it on the profile to show up any high spots as you go.
No idea if it'd work, just thinking on a keypad
 

Spectric

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
3,854
Reaction score
2,032
Location
North Cumbria
Well I’m sure you are way more experienced than me (total novice) but knowing me I will mess it up. I suppose the only way to learn is to try. Perhaps I should practice extensively before I go for it.
Once upon a time even the most experienced were complete novices, we learn by doing but also from our mistakes. There has been many a time that I have got close to completion of some part and then cocked it up, it is at this point you then decide to start again or repair the cockup. What I have learnt to do is that with making many tricky or complicated parts is to either make an extra one or two that will be sacrificed if you make a mistake or if possible make a complicated component from several smaller components so less to remake.
 

dzj

Established Member
Joined
29 Jan 2013
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1,467
Location
Serbia
I made the hollows first. I turned a dowel rod and wrapped sandpaper around it
and that's how I got the correct profile of the sole.
When the hollows plane was finished, I made the round one with it.
 

Devmeister

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2021
Messages
270
Reaction score
165
Location
Colorado, usa
Simply put, I learned the hard way from the best. I met Clarke and Williams at a show decades ago and bought some floats from him. Later he released a video thru Lie Nielsen. It’s still available thru Lie Nielsen’s streaming service. It covers everything. He covers the concept of mother planes. Most likely the best way to it using hand tools.

That said, the idea of making a sanding block from metal is not bad. Wood will work but aluminum is relatively cheap and easy to cut. The trick is bore the hole larger than needed by the amount needed to hold the paper. Again you may need to rough it out using hand tools and finish with the metal block sanders.

But remember that hollows and rounds are best served as a matching set. The grunt work is In the round or male profile. Then use it as a mother plane to get a matching set.

What I found to be a pain were the irons! The damn things are tapered and lie Nielsen isn’t making them. You need what 18 of them right? How are you doing the irons?
 

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
Simply put, I learned the hard way from the best. I met Clarke and Williams at a show decades ago and bought some floats from him. Later he released a video thru Lie Nielsen. It’s still available thru Lie Nielsen’s streaming service. It covers everything. He covers the concept of mother planes. Most likely the best way to it using hand tools.

That said, the idea of making a sanding block from metal is not bad. Wood will work but aluminum is relatively cheap and easy to cut. The trick is bore the hole larger than needed by the amount needed to hold the paper. Again you may need to rough it out using hand tools and finish with the metal block sanders.

But remember that hollows and rounds are best served as a matching set. The grunt work is In the round or male profile. Then use it as a mother plane to get a matching set.

What I found to be a pain were the irons! The damn things are tapered and lie Nielsen isn’t making them. You need what 18 of them right? How are you doing the irons?
Hi

I have Larry’s video and I am generally using the dimensions and techniques he demonstrates. Great and very useful video.

Yes, the idea was to get it close using hand tools and use the metal radius sanding blocks i would make on the lathe just for finishing.

I am ok with the irons. I have a 1941 Burke horizontal mill i refurbed recently. It will happily cut a taper on a piece of ground flat stock. Then I can use it to accurately cut the iron. I recently acquired a mag chuck for these purposes. Only problem with GFS is that it is expensive.

See vid.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3135.MOV
    17.1 MB

steve355

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2020
Messages
74
Reaction score
26
Location
Herts
There you go, i did it with a rabbet plane and sandpaper in the end. Seems to be accurate-ish. Perhaps I was stressing over nothing.

quite a few more to do though.
 

Attachments

  • C8CCD64D-9699-4573-90D0-18EC3019D66D.jpeg
    C8CCD64D-9699-4573-90D0-18EC3019D66D.jpeg
    81 KB · Views: 0
  • C5A5922F-9579-4E7A-989D-E0206E2D4094.jpeg
    C5A5922F-9579-4E7A-989D-E0206E2D4094.jpeg
    200.1 KB · Views: 0

Jacob

Pint of bass, porkpie, and packet of crisps please
Joined
7 Jul 2010
Messages
22,424
Reaction score
2,505
Location
Derbyshire
There you go, i did it with a rabbet plane and sandpaper in the end. Seems to be accurate-ish.
They look good! Accurate ish is good enough - any precision depends on the blade itself.
Perhaps I was stressing over nothing.
Definitely! In fact the round is probably the easiest thing in the whole process.
 
Top