Help with new company name

[LyNx]

I have a list of names that i'm checking to see if available on the internet and companies house.

One name that we like is not listed on companies house so i presume is available but after a internet search i have found this name used on a yell.com style directory.

If this person hasn't registered this name as the company name, can we use it, or is it not as easy as that?

 

[ByronBlack]

the internet name doesn't matter. If it's not on companies house register you are free to use it.

 

[LyNx]

sweeeeeeeeeeeet :lol:

 

[Jake]

It isn't quite that simple, though. The company name is yours, but if you trade under it, you can still be sued for passing off and/or trademark abuse.

 

[LyNx]

What if this person hasn't registered the name or the trademark, just placed it on the adds page to get some business. Surely he's in the wrong if it's not registered at all.

 

[ProShop]

What if this person hasn't registered the name or the trademark, just placed it on the adds page to get some business. Surely he's in the wrong if it's not registered at all.

You don't have to register a name if you don't want to. For example you can be a sole trader with a company name and no need to register.

Unless you want to be a limited company or pic then you have no choice but to register.

There are lots of small companies out there with the same name but most probably in different industries and in different towns but not registered.

Is the firm in your town area with the name you like ?? Do you really want the same name as someone else ?? whether registered or not.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Andy,

Have you tried the Companies House website - there's quite a bit of info there about company names http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/guidance.shtml

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[ByronBlack]

John has it right. I worked for a number of years as a soletrader and as such could trade under a name without registering it. There are some circumstances in which it can be disputed, but only if it's a direct competitor, but the 'rules' are a little hazy over that. Also, most Ltd companies will have both a registered name and a 'trading' name to avoid clashes.

For example, you have could have something like: BillyBagel Holdings Ltd as a registered name and 'Billy's Pukka Bagels' as a trading name.

 

[tim]

Andy

The bore you will find with trademarking (and indeed patents) is not whose right and whose wrong but in fact who has the deepest pockets and prepared to defend their interest the most vigorously. There are so many areas of contradiction, confusion and obfuscation that ultimately only the lawyers win.

If the name you seek is being shown in use (albeit unregistered) and is also in the same category (or overlapping ones) that you wish to trade in then you may well have a possible squabble on your hands.

There are frankly only so many names that can go around that aren't totally up themselves and made up eg Aviva and consequently they can often appear in the market together but in separate categories eg Polo (VW), Polo (Ralph Lauren) and Polo (Rowntrees) without much fuss but it depends on who else is in the mix.

You can also call your name trademarked ™ if you have applied for registration but can only use ® if the name is actually registered.

Be aware that not all words are trade markable ie ones in common language usage eg ICE. However it can be if linked to a design device or other name eg Foster's Ice. And here's my point really - if you decided to call your business Andy's Ice and you received a letter threatening legal action for trademark infringement from Foster's Brewing, would you fold or see them in court? It wasn't unusual for several hundred thousand pounds to suddenly disappear in defense/ offense before outcomes were resolved or considerably more in some cases eg Apple vs Beatles.

HTH

Cheers

Tim


Cheers

Tim

 

[Jake]

What if this person hasn't registered the name or the trademark, just placed it on the adds page to get some business. Surely he's in the wrong if it's not registered at all.

If it isn't a trademark, then you only have to worry about passing off. Essentially, that means will you, by using the name, be confusing the public into thinking you are that other person, so taking away his trade by confusing his custom.

So if he's in a totally different area of business, that helps avoid any such confusion, and if he is in a totally different area, that helps avoid it as well.

 

[LyNx]

a sole trader with a company name and no need to register

I've checked the business name, limited company name and the trade mark and nothing came up. So can we still register this name as our limited company name.

This person is at the other end of the country in Scotland (380 miles away).

 

[ByronBlack]

a sole trader with a company name and no need to register

I've checked the business name, limited company name and the trade mark and nothing came up. So can we still register this name as our limited company name.

This person is at the other end of the country in Scotland (380 miles away).

Doesn't sound to be a problem to me, I'm assuming it's a different business type?

 

[tim]

Where did you check the trademark? UK or EU?

There is no reason why you can't apply for registration but that doesn't mean it will be granted and as others have said that if its in the same category, you c ould still be potentially accused of passing off even if they or another party have been trading with that name (unregistered or not).

Cheers

Tim

 

[LyNx]

So if he's in a totally different area of business, that helps avoid any such confusion,

Thats one problem, it's the exact same name, even with it ending in "joinery" :roll:


Thanks for the input so far people. I'll have a better understanding of this in the morning after a kip

 

[Noel]

It's not too hard to make a small addition to a title to differentiate one company name from another:

03317176 THE JONES COMPANY LIMITED
05925272 J1S LIMITED
04949234 JONESA LIMITED
03356745 JONES ACCOUNTANCY SERVICES LIMITED
05753838 JONES ACCOUNTANTS LIMITED
06303514 JONES ACCOUNTANTS (MORLEY) LIMITED
06214771 JONES ACCOUNTING LTD
05954489 JONES ACCOUNTING SOLUTIONS LIMITED
03424304 JONES ACTIVE MARKETING LIMITED
05021281 JONESAFETY LIMITED
06212691 JONES AGRIC CONSULTING LTD
03787916 JONES AGRICULTURAL SERVICES LIMITED
02693437 JONES A JONES CYFYNGEDIG
06279217 JONES ALYSON LIMITED
03669025 JONES AMUSEMENTS LIMITED
00603125 JONES & ALCOCK LIMITED
00890477 JONES & ANDREWS LIMITED
05534760 JONES & ASSOCIATES LTD
01779224 JONES & ASSOCIATES BUILDING SERVICE ENGINEERS LIMITED
05715191 JONES AND ASSOCIATES INVESTMENT LIMITED
00329471 R JONES & BARCLAY LIMITED
05129234 JONES & BEAUTY LIMITED
01209810 L JONES & BENT LIMITED in Liquidation
05865028 JONES & BOWEN LIMITED
01251907 JONES & BRADBURN LIMITED
00604139 JONES & BRAMLEY (COACHWORKS) LIMITED
00057145 JONES & BROOKS,LIMITED
05528131 JONES AND BROWN LIMITED
SC006316 JONES & CAMPBELL, LIMITED
SC099840 JONES & CAMPBELL (HOLDINGS) LIMITED
05188958 JONES & CARR LTD
01087039 JONES & CARTER LIMITED
04724093 D JONES & CHAMBAULT LIMITED Dissolved
04610148 JONES & CHERRY LIMITED
00760781 JONES & CLARK (BURTON-ON-TRENT) LIMITED
04810602 JONES AND puffins LIMITED
03093473 JONES & CO DESIGN LIMITED
04984373 D JONES & CO. HAIRDRESSING LIMITED Dissolved
05733723 JONES & CO MOTORS LIMITED
04195656 JONES & COMPANY (MIDLANDS) LIMITED

 

[tim]

It's not too hard to make a small addition to a title to differentiate one company name from another:

Noel - I'm not sure adding Jones is the way to go though :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Tim

 

[Jake]

That's not the problem though, all very well having the company name (a much easier test of differentiation), but you presumably want to be free to trade under it as well - which is where you have to consider passing off, which is much less clear cut.

If you are in the same area of business, I'd choose a different name. Change the 'Joinery' bit at least.

 

[Noel]

Jake, passing off will hardly be an issue when there's 400 miles of difference and a separate country to consider. Unless Lynx is planning to go nationwide and advertise on national TV there's not likely to be a conflict.
Talk to Co House and maybe spend £100 or so on some professional advice if you're unsure.

Tim, doesn't Jones Joinery sound good? Or Jonesy The Joiner? How about Jones, Jones & Jones Joiners? Very individual sounding..............<gr>

 

[Jake]

Jake, passing off will hardly be an issue when there's 400 miles of difference and a separate country to consider. Unless Lynx is planning to go nationwide and advertise on national TV there's not likely to be a conflict.
Talk to Co House and maybe spend £100 or so on some professional advice if you're unsure.

I have no idea what his intentions are, and in any case, intentions change and businesses grow. And avoiding litigation, even if you would win, is always sensible, from the point of view of a litigator.

Co House will have no clue or desire to advise him on IP, their only concern is the company register and its rules, which as I've said are very different and much more clear-cut.

As for the £100-worth of professional advice, well at my usual hourly rate (which I don't get to see, I hasten to add) he's probably had about that already.

 

[White House Workshop]

I had this problem with a trademark years ago - I had registered a trademark with the US patent office and another group started trading using the same name. They also grabbed the website .com name from under my nose, although I got the .co.uk one! Anyway, I got my lawyer to write a letter to them (£50) and they changed their name enough to make them different. The ONLY reason they changed was that I could prove I had been trading using the mark for over 10 years at the time and they were relatively new at it.

The guidelines I got from my lawyer was that if their business was different enough from mine (and it was) then there was really nothing I could do other than rely on their goodwill to not confuse themselves with me (like 'Polo' referred to in a previous post). I'm still really annoyed with myself about losing the .com though....