Help needed about inherited tools

[Neil]

Poor Alf, your keyboard must be worn out after 1000+ posts and now I have to dump this lot on you...

I've inherited some hand tools so I thought that I would show you all, and ask for some advice on care/restoration and identification in a couple of cases. Sorry about the big download for the bandwidth-restricted...

Without further ado, here they are. First up, a Stanley/Bailey No. 7:

It was a bit rusty, but I removed most of it and honed the blade. It is very nice to use, although what would I know?

Record Bullnose Rabbet Plane No. 077A:

Rather rusty as you can see. Any tips on how to give it some TLC? Also what angles should I be honing it at?

Spokeshaves:

Record No. A151 and a wooden one - can someone tell me what this one is please?

Honing guide:

I like this a lot - unfortunately the iron from the No. 7 is too wide for it. I like the little swing-out gauge with markings for 45,30 and 25 degrees - why don't modern guides have this I wonder?

Mortise gauge & rules:

The gauge is marked 'Swift & Sons, Sheffield'

Squares:

The smaller one is marked 'St__wood, Birmingham, England' I can't read the test on the bigger one - something like 'Wilson..._watt & sons Ltd.' The small one is out-of-square - I don't suppose there is any way of adjusting this? And what is the best approach to de-rusting?

Saws:

The Tenon saw is marked 'A.T.Murray & Sons, Liverpool'. I like the little one and it cuts beautifully, but I have no idea what it is for

And finally (you'll be pleased to hear), some chisels & gouges, plus a little set of dividers:

Some of the gouges are marked 'Keeson, Liverpool'

There was also a Record 405 Multiplane, complete with its manual and a letter from C&J Hampton Ltd. with details of extra cutters. The letter is dated 28th Feb 1956. I have used this in anger (anger being the operative word, as I didn't know then to start at the end of the work and work my way backwards... )

No antiques I'm sure, but I like them anyway . Any advice on looking after & tuning these tools would be much appreciated, particularly for the bullnose plane. The person who left them to me would want them to be used!

Thanks for your help, everyone...

NeilCFD

 

[Alf]

Neil,

D'you mind awfully if I come back to this lot in the morning? There are a couple of parrots here who seem to think they should get some of my attention. Just to tide you over:

You Sucketh More Mightily Than A Dyson!! (in the nicest possible way) :wink:

Cheers, Alf

P.S. The bullnose is worthless, especially with the box. As a favour, I'm willing to dispose of it for you...

 

[Noel]

Neil,

Does the term "inherited" have a different meaning in your part of the country?........You're very fortunate. Happy days and good luck with the restoration.

Rgds

Noel

 

[Midnight]

hmmmmmmmm... mever thought I'd live to see a green Alf...

:wink:

 

[Neil]

Sorry everyone - it wasn't meant to be a gloat as I feel very unlucky really - I would much rather still have the person who I inherited them from

Very generous offer about the bullnose, Alf, especially in these days of escalating bin charges, but after due consideration I've decided to hang on to it :wink:

There were also some Woodies which I haven't collected yet, plus two nice Woden sash cramps (which are incredibly rusty) and lots of little bits & pieces.

Would anyone be interested to see pictures of the 405?

NeilCFD

 

[Alf]

Would anyone be interested in pictures of the 405 he says... :roll:

Sorry, Neil, I should have commiserated with you first. Then got jealous... Okay, so let's see what we have here:

Stanley UK #7 jointer - spitting image of my own dear #7. Use it, enjoy it.

Record #77a - that's exactly what I meant by "crusty" rust in this thread :shock: Go fairly gently with the cleaning if in any doubt, and do the sole and sides just like you were flattening the sole, but making sure you don't take the sides out of square with the sole. Err, bevel angle... um, my mind's gone blank. Not less than 25 degs and probably 30 for some strength sound right? BTW have you got the shims too? From the box it must date between WW2 and 1962 and the book price as of last March was betwen £30-80 fwiw.

Record A151 spokeshave - "Unbreakable" made of malleable iron. Hence the "A" prefix and the red paint. Introduced in 1933 and still in production until fairly recently. Must be good then.

Adjustable wooden spokeshave - just about the only design of shave I don't have :roll: It's, er, adjustable. Beech body, possibly a brass wear plate on the sole? Very popular in the States, less so here I think. Not a lot I can add really. If you look very carefully over the body you might find a maker's stamp - but you might not, lots of firms made them I think. Salaman calls it a "Screwed and plated" shave.

Honing guide - pass, not my forte at all. You could try BugBear, he's more of a honing guide afficianado.

Cutting gauge - rather than a mortise one (only one pin). Standard beech jobbie - useful but undramatic. Swift & Sons comes up blank in my (very limited) reference books.

4-fold boxwood rules - they should clean up very nicely with some fine webrax or equivalent and lots of paste wax. Rub it in and it'll clean the wood surprisingly well. Wipe off the now grey and dirty wax and re-apply a fresh thin coat and buff out. Paint spots may need popping off with a fingernail. The upper one is an "arch" joint, and the lower a "square" joint (surprise). If you want to polish up the brass, do the waxing of the wood first and you'll cut down on problems with the grime and polish from the brass bleeding into the boxwood. DAMHIKT

Squares - the little one is a combined try and mitre, which is handy. Getting it back square is a problem though. I tend to avoid buying old squares because of this, so I'm basing this advice on guesswork and hazy recollection. You could try giving the square a firm tap and see if you're lucky :wink: but failing that I think you have to file it square... :shock: A long, tedious, and somewhat skillful task. The bigger one is sort of ringing a bell with me, but I can't put my finger on the name. IIWM, I'd remove the rust with wirewool or alternative first and see how it looked. Looks from here like a certain amount of bluing of the blade is still there on the bigger one, and you don't want to lose that if you can help it. If that's no good then wet'n'dry wrapped round a hardwood block with the square's blade well supported works for me. All procedures well lubricated with white spirit btw.

Tenon saw - The only date I have for A T Murray puts them somewhere around 1935, although he was trading, without his sons, in Liverpool between 1905 and 1913 so you can assume certainly earlier than '35, and probably later. Rather a nice workmanlike saw. Clean up the blade (if required) with the hardwood block just like the squares.

Mystery saw - I admit, I had to look this one up! Apparently it's an electrician's saw. :? According the Salaman "made to cut either wood or metal, and used before c.1918 for cutting the wooden 'capping and casing' in which the wires were run". So now you, and I, know. You'll be needing a bell hanger's awl next :roll: :lol:

Gouges etc - Could it be "Kelson" rather than "Keeson"? I've got a listing for a Kelson trademark used by R Kelly & Sons of Liverpool (1880-1927) Looks to me like you've got at least a couple of carving tools there - the one with the octagonal handle might be interesting. Couple of tack lifters at the end, and a nice pair of wing dividers.

Some jolly good, useful tools there, Noel. Enjoy.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Neil]

Thank you, Alf, for your very detailed reply - I'm a little overwhelmed! I'll digest it further after work, and post a couple more pictures. Just a couple of things for now:

The gauge has the two mortise pins on the other side, which you can't see in the photo.

The wooden spokeshave - I'm 99% sure it has the brass plate - I'll look after work.

The boxwood rules had makers’ names on, so I'll post these later.

The electrician's saw is a bit of a surprise - I think I might find other uses for it...

Gouges could well be Kelson rather than Keeson - the stamp wasn't very clear.

I'll be seeking your advice on the woodies too, but I won't be picking these up for a few months.

Thanks again, Alf, you're a star!

Neil

 

[Alf]

The gauge has the two mortise pins on the other side, which you can't see in the photo.

Ooops, sorry. Trouble was I couldn't see any means of adjustment either, hence the assumption.

I'll take a guess, based on not being able to see the pics again , and suggest Rabone or Rabone Chesterman on at least one of the rules.

I'll be seeking your advice on the woodies too, but I won't be picking these up for a few months.

Phewwwwwwwww. :roll: :lol:

You're welcome; sorry for going on!

Cheers, Alf

 

[Neil]

Sorry Alf, the pictures should be back now. I hadn't realised that myimgs.com have such a low bandwidth limit per month - used up in 24 hours in this case!

sorry for going on!

Hardly, Alf! :roll: :lol: Your advice is much appreciated.

Off now to take a pic of the 405.

Neil

 

[Neil]

Hi Alf,

You did indeed guess correctly with Rabone - the arch joint one. The square one says 'E. Preston & Sons' along with 'C. Jennings & Co. Bristol Timber Merchants General' and, you'll be pleased to hear, 'Support British Industry'
No shims with the #77a...

One of the gouges is a Sorby, and one of the chisels is indeed Kelson on closer inspection - I think my eyesight is going :roll:

Here is the sole of the wooden spokeshave, showing the brass plate and a blade which is in need of some attention:

And here (rather unnecessarily) is the other side of the mortise gauge:

Lastly here is the 405:

and again:

Seems pretty mint - slight rust on the ends of the arms and on some of the cutters, but that is about it.

If anyone is interested, I can do a PDF of the instructions.

I promise that is the last of the pictures for a while... :wink:

Neil

 

[Alf]

You did indeed guess correctly with Rabone - the arch joint one. The square one says 'E. Preston & Sons' along with 'C. Jennings & Co. Bristol Timber Merchants General' and, you'll be pleased to hear, 'Support British Industry'

Cool, especially the Preston one. 8) The 4-fold that came in the chest (broken alas ) turned out to be a promotional one too, for Jewsons in Plymouth, which I thought was good fun. Promotional rules could be a whole collecting theme really... But I won't go there! :shock:

No shims with the #77a...

No worries, you'll probably want a fine mouth all the time anyway.

One of the gouges is a Sorby, and one of the chisels is indeed Kelson on closer inspection - I think my eyesight is going :roll:

Which Sorby? :wink: And you don't want to hear some of the things I think I've read on tools. Spent 10 mins the other day trying to make "Governor" spell "Onions" simply 'cos I knew the trademark I could see was used by Onions. Silly me, it was Governor brand! :roll:

Here is the sole of the wooden spokeshave, showing the brass plate and a blade which is in need of some attention

Ooo nice, that's hardly been used.

And here (rather unnecessarily) is the other side of the mortise gauge

Yep, definitely a mortise gauge

Lastly here is the 405...Seems pretty mint - slight rust on the ends of the arms and on some of the cutters, but that is about it.

You're telling me! I thought mine was pretty crispy, but that's a joy to behold. Very, very nice. But of course it needs to get used... :wink:

If anyone is interested, I can do a PDF of the instructions.

Nice offer, but you've been beaten to it. Although I see the covers differ at least, so it might be worth seeing if there are differences... :wink:

Thanks for letting us, well me anyway, drool by proxy.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Pete W]

Well, I'd like to thank both of you. Hugely enjoyable thread .

 

[DaveL]

Neil

Thank you for showing us the tools, I hope when you use them they remind you of good memorys of the person they came from.
I have a few tools that where my grandads, very pleasant to use.

And Alf once again you shead light on the wonderful things displayed for our pleasure. May your fingers never grow tired :wink:

 

[Chris Knight]

Thanks to both of you for showing us the tools and telling us about them. As Dave says, I am sure they will mean a lot to you Neil when you use them.

 

[Neil]

Thanks everyone for such kind words - I will indeed enjoy using all of these tools at some stage - although I'll have quite a steep learning curve to climb for some of them. And a special thank you to you, Alf - you're the best!

I've downloaded that PDF and I'll have a look if there are any interesting differences.

Neil

 

[Aragorn]

Just to add my thanks to you both as well. Very enjoyable and interesting thread. Neil, the tools look fabulous, especially the 405.
Every tool takes on the spirit of the person using it, and I'm sure learning to use this lot will bring you great pleasure and fond memories.

 

[Neil]

Hi everyone,

I've had a go at cleaning up the Record #77A, following Alf's advice using webrax, white spirit, elbow grease, router collet brushes, waterstone etc. etc. I'm quite pleased with the result so I thought I would show it off a bit:

Alf - when I removed the nose I found the shims were attached - don't know how I missed them before - I would like to say that they were hidden under the layers of rust, but when I look back at the original photo I can see them so there is no way I would get away with this.

It took three hours of hard work just for this little plane, so I'm now feeling for Alf having the entire contents of the tool chest to do :shock:

NeilCFD

 

[Alf]

It took three hours of hard work just for this little plane, so I'm now feeling for Alf having the entire contents of the tool chest to do :shock:

If anyone fancies a summer school on "Rust removal for woodworkers", I have plenty of teaching material... :lol:

Neil, cracking job. I could just see that nestling in the tool chest and looking right at home. :wink: Next stop the #7? Or the squares? Maybe the saws? On the other hand there are the shaves... Hmm, I'm not the only one with some work to do eh? :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Neil]

Hmm, I'm not the only one with some work to do eh?

You know, Alf, I think you might be right. It is strangely addictive though, but does eat into the woodworking time a bit...

Well, even though I think I should be focussing on rust removal, I don't think anything is getting any worse so I would like to do something wooden next to mix it up a bit. The boxwood rules look like a good place to start for something not too arduous

The handle & knob on the #7 are in need of some urgent TLC. Any advice on how to proceed with these, Alf? The handle had some padding glued to it, and now there is a nasty gluey residue left behind :?

NeilCFD

 

[Chris Knight]

Neil,
It looks terrific - you have done a fabulous job on it - it really makes me want to pick it up and use it!