Help Choosing A Chuck

[Adam Pinson]

Hi,

I have a Union Graduate lathe with 1 1/2" x 6TPI nose and opted for the Sorby Patriot chuck with just the standard set of jaws to start with but these jaws so far have done all I want. The patriot fits my lathe with a Exert.

Robert Sorby Patriot Chuck Inserts and Exerts, Robert Sorby Patriot Chucks and Jaws, Robert Sorby Woodturning, Carving, Woodworking on Westcountry Machinery 4 Wood

Patriot Chuck System

I fully agree with marcros in saying don't go mad buying extra chuck jaws unless really needed. I bought my Patriot direct from Sorby's in Sheffield collecting it but later found I could have bought it cheaper at Turners Retreat with free postage; shame on Sorby's for treating me like this.

I like the Patriot though; if I were to buy all the extras I'd need a second mortgage so until needed I'll stick with the one set of jaws it came with.

Lathe attachments often end up costing more than paid for the lathe and in the case of expensive chucks these are relatively new compared to the old methods of securing work in a lathe. I often use "jam chucks" I like these because I can make them cheaply from offcuts I have kicking around to any size; yes they do have to be made taking time but I don't mind because I like working on the lathe; here's a sample video which demonstrates alternative ways of chucking;



Kind regards, Colin.

View attachment 100447

Another way of chucking small items is to use collets with a draw bar; I turn the blanks as in these finials to fit the collet at one end allowing the finial to be completed in one go.

View attachment 100448

A quick way to achieve the correct diameter for a collet is to use a spanner as a gauge.

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My Graduate doubles up as a metal spinning lathe so here is a friction drive; the spun aluminium seen lower down.

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When I turn a lot of identical diameters I rig up a simple hinged bar like this seen in action; very simple to make costing nothing from offcuts but accurate; here is one of a batch of finial blanks being turned between centers and will then be finish turned in a collet.

View attachment 100451

Two aluminium spun light reflectors using the former shown in previous picture on friction drive but I'm only adding these two metal spinning pictures just to show what can be achieved on a lathe assuming the lathe has enough power.

View attachment 100452

Here's a wooden jam chuck being used in combination with the Patriot chuck; I'm about to withdraw the tailstock allowing the bottom to be cleanly finished. I derive a great deal of pleasure just playing on the lathe and I'm only limited by my imagination; there are often a number of ways to turn so I've added these for novices new to wood turning. I hope they are of interest.

What is the purpose of the extention in front of your chuck? Would it help stop my chuck and faceplate binding to my headstock ?

 

[Retired]

Hi,

The extension between headstock and chuck on my Graduate is the "Exert" which allows the Patriot chuck to be mounted on the lathe; you shouldn't suffer any binding from a chuck or faceplate even if you can screw the chuck or faceplate directly onto the mandrel.

Here's what the exert looks like; it's an adaptor; it screws onto the mandrel with the female thread and the Patriot chuck then screws onto the male thread; it depends on what lathe is being used and these particular exerts are for use with the Sorby Patriot chuck which I have but can fit other lathes too;

Westcountry Machinery 4 Wood Search

https://www.machinery4wood.co.uk/Robert-Sorby-PATRIOT-CHUCK-INSERTS-and-EXERTS/P11899

Sorby inserts and exerts come in many sizes but if you have a different make of chuck you'll need the correct adaptor unless the chuck can be screwed straight on without adaptor.

Woodturning can be very confusing to a novice because of the bewildering array of tooling and accessories available usually at high cost. The bottom picture in my post #14 shows the Patriot chuck mounted onto my Graduate with the exert but in order to save a lot of money buying endless sets of jaws I get around this as seen by using a wooden "jam" chuck; the light coloured wood is the jam chuck and to this I turned a tenon on one end to suit the chuck jaws I have but then turned the diameter to give a good friction fit into the piece I was working on allowing the tailstock to be withdrawn. With practice and a bit of experimentation a novice turner soon grasps the basics. So far I've only ever needed just one set of chuck jaws for the Patriot. An engineer type chuck was also supplied with the Graduate.

Looking at wonderful items that have been turned and all the expensive tooling used would make a novice think he/she would need to buy all the tooling too but I don't recommend this; many years ago my wonderful wife bought me a very basic Record power DML24" woodturning lathe; it came with a faceplate and drive etc. also a set of three very basic carbon steel chisels; I did lots of work with just this set up; I've now got a huge assortment of top quality turning tools but usually only use about three of them; I don't mean any offence to anyone but you simply do not need to buy lots of expensive kit in order to produce top end work; an experienced turner can produce excellent work even with cheap tooling but a novice can produce poor work using expensive tools; it pays to start with just basic kit until a bit of experience is gained. Lots of my chisels and gouges are secondhand; many coming with lathes I've bought over the years.

I bought my Graduate in scrap condition and fully rebuilt it it costing £500 plus transport; I was very happy to get it at this price but it was very rough; it had been posted for sale on Gumtree from an academy but when I enquired it had been sold much to my disappointment; however a few days later I received a most welcome email from the academy asking if I was still interested in the Graduate and if so free tools would be included; I was at the academy the following day with a friend who owns a big 7 seater Ford. Whilst we stripped the lathe for transporting there was a woodworking class in progress and tutors in their white coats started to appear interested in what we were doing; as promised the big box of tools were brought to us most of these top quality such as Sorby; included was a Sorby scraper seen in the picture this alone would now cost over £80 just for the one tool and there were a lot of tools; the tools alone would have cost more than the lathe to buy new. Included was a scroll chuck which at tutor asked if we would like it? I sold this on for £100 it not really to my liking; also an engineering type chuck which I kept; as we worked yet another tutor asked if we'd like the faceplates behind us on the wall which we hadn't noticed; another tutor arrived with a sack cart; we were royally treated at the academy and I thought all my Christmases had come at once; WOW was I over the moon as we departed with friendly handshakes all around.

Back home I set about rebuilding the Graduate and also upgrading it to 1.5hp 3 phase via a VFD; it received a comprehensive rebuild and I also made a number of parts that were missing.

Sorry Rock to divert from your original question about chucks but once you do have a chuck then you'll need tools and other accessories; I like to encourage anyone who wants to have a go at woodturning because woodturning is such a fabulous hobby; I've been turning metal and wood for over 50 years and still find it fascinating. A lathe is the only machine where a blank can be put in and finished in one go.

Any chance of pictures of your lathe Rock just for interest; it's not a problem if you can't add pictures.

Due to bad weather it's too cold to wander down to the workshop in the snow so I thought I'd spend a bit of time going off topic adding a few notes which might be of use.

Good luck and play safely.

Kind regards, Colin.

Faceplates generously supplied free with the Graduate; these would be very expensive to buy separately.

My fully rebuilt Graduate and some of the tools.

Here are the tools supplied with the Graduate these are worth more than I paid for the lathe and other goodies too were supplied; it was a brilliant day.

When I had my workshop in the rear extension before converting the garage; I turned all the beech handles and am always tidy and fastidious when it comes to anything I do.

 

[Cooper]

Another way of chucking small items is to use collets with a draw bar; I turn the blanks as in these finials to fit the collet at one end allowing the finial to be completed in one go.

I also have a Graduate and the Patriot chuck. I would like a second chuck as its such a nuisance taking the jaws off to hold a straight shank. And even the Patriot doesn't hold more than about 12 mm of a shank.
I like the collet idea but I presume the collet is for really quite small diameters as it has to fit into the No3 taper.
An old 3 jaw chuck would do, though I haven't seen one on Ebay or Gumtree that would fit my graduate thread. I'm sure I'm not alone, what do others have as an economical second chuck?
Cheers
Martin

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What is the purpose of the extention in front of your chuck? Would it help stop my chuck and faceplate binding to my headstock ?

Cut a washer from a milk carton. I had one drop off and I bent a 9mm bar getting the chuck off - I ensure now I don't screw anything on without a washer. I have a Dettol bottle kept for the next one, it's a little thicker. You can cut them with dividers - just cut nearly through first as a larger piece of plastic makes it easier to hold, then sever the outer circle first so you've still the centre to work from for the inner one.

 

[Adam Pinson]

Cut a washer from a milk carton. I had one drop off and I bent a 9mm bar getting the chuck off - I ensure now I don't screw anything on without a washer. I have a Dettol bottle kept for the next one, it's a little thicker. You can cut them with dividers - just cut nearly through first as a larger piece of plastic makes it easier to hold, then sever the outer circle first so you've still the centre to work from for the inner one.

Thanks Phil, great advice, I don't want to bend my spindle

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You don't need to cut the outside that accurately, of course, but if you get the inside just tight enough it won't fall off.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I also have a Graduate and the Patriot chuck. I would like a second chuck as its such a nuisance taking the jaws off to hold a straight shank. And even the Patriot doesn't hold more than about 12 mm of a shank.
I like the collet idea but I presume the collet is for really quite small diameters as it has to fit into the No3 taper.
An old 3 jaw chuck would do, though I haven't seen one on Ebay or Gumtree that would fit my graduate thread. I'm sure I'm not alone, what do others have as an economical second chuck?
Cheers
Martin

Thanks Martin; I've not checked but I think my collets go up to 20mm although this is only the diameter that fits into the collet; a 20mm tenon could be turned between centers on thicker timber. A drawbar is needed to suit the lathe.

Above is the type of collet kit I bought from Chronos but identical kits like the one in the picture are available through eBay. I'll try to remember to take pictures of my collets and how they are used next time I go into the workshop; at the moment it's too cold and wet to wander down to the workshop; roll on springtime.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[marcros]

I have and use a collect chuck (I have the beall one but it will have limited thread options). It is very useful but I wouldn't want it as my only chuck.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

I have and use a collect chuck (I have the beall one but it will have limited thread options). It is very useful but I wouldn't want it as my only chuck.

I agree marcros; the collets are additional to a proper chuck but I added the information because not everyone is familiar with collets and collets are another type of chuck.

My collet chuck showing the parts. The long drawbar I made myself it suits my Graduate lathe; the aluminium hand wheel at the left hand I turned; threaded and knurled in my engineering lathe next to it is a steel bush turned to fit perfectly into the left hand end of the mandrel; I'm aware few members have a workshop where such work can be carried out but when a set of collets are bought they will need a suitable draw bar for serious work; it's possible the taper on the collet holder would suffice but I like the security of a drawbar.

The collet holder with a collet; my set of 12 collets go up to 20mm. Also shown is how I mount for finial turning; I turn finial blanks between centers and add a tenon as seen to suit a collet size then I can finish the finial chucked in the collet; I can turn and finish finials between centers but I have the set of collets so use them. Pen blanks can be used for finials.

The aluminium knurled hand wheel and steel spacer in close up.

The outboard end of the drawbar shown in position in the lathe; I have a metal turning lathe so any excuse to use it; I like both wood and metal turning.

The collet holder shown in the lathe; the draw bar pulls the collet holder in tight against the taper so there's no chance of it becoming loose; a "C" spanner is used to secure and release the turned item. Collets run very true indeed and afford the best grip possible.

On the left my engineering type chuck; on the right my Patriot chuck both fit the Graduate; I've just bought an indexing ring from Charnwood; I can easily make an indexing ring but I bought this just to get me started because I've also bought a Makita RT0700CX4 palm router just for lathe use; I already have another four routers. What I don't have is nice dry warm weather; it's been cold in the workshop just taking these pictures this afternoon.

Here's an example of jam chucks I mentioned in a previous post and these are dirt cheap and extremely accurate. The larger square of MDF I attach to a faceplate as a sub base then I attach a blank square of MDF with a pair of wood screws; I'm careful of screw positions but by jam chucking this way I can use a single piece of MDF for a number of projects; I cut a pile of these smaller squares in readiness; any offcuts of boards can be used in this manner costing nothing and I can attach these without having to detach the faceplate.

I'm not an expert in woodturning or even metal turning but I've been turning both for over 50 years and still know little.

Here's a very small bowl in ash I was playing with it being turned in the Patriot but can be easily finished in a jam chuck giving full access to its bottom. Every turner has his/her own favourite methods; I use whatever I have to hand as long as I can achieve the end result. Expensive tooling isn't always needed in a home workshop; it's handy and often speeds a job up but who wants to work a production line in a home workshop.

Whilst in the workshop I took a couple of extra images; my Graduate double up as my metal spinning lathe and here are the metal spinning tools; they are very heavy duty the long one is 42" long.

My home made metal spinning tool rest; not pretty but solid. Sorry to wander off topic but I like all aspects of turning.

Kind regards, Colin

 

[clogs]

nice one Colin, glad you took the time.....sorry about the weather tho.....
spring will soon be there.....

 

[Cooper]

Hi,



Thank you for such a thorough reply. These pictures and notes are really interesting and helpful. I've really only ever seen collets on metal working lathes and for very small drills.
I like to make toys and often work between centres and cut the piece and then want to work on an unsupported portion held in the chuck.
How deep do the tenons (I called them shanks) fit into the collet? As I mentioned in my comment earlier, I find that the patriot chuck really only holds about 12 mm and if the piece gets a knock or is removed from the chuck it is hard to get it back on centre. I attach a picture of a typical piece (posted before). If I could hold the work better the eggs might have been a bit less chunky.

 

[ROCK]

You're very welcome. I have the SC4 which was my first chuck so I've nothing to compare it too. I liked that it had the interchangeable mount - just in case I ever got a lathe that wasn't M33 and that the back was sealed to minimise dust. The chuck key is said to be a better design than that supplied with the SC3. I was going to buy a second SC4 because changing chucks is quicker than swapping jaws and sometimes, even in my hitherto limited turning experience, there has been times when hhaving a second set-up to turn different parts without having to remove one from the chuck would have been a huge help. I haven't yet ruled out adding another SC4 but for time being I bought one of the SC2 chucks, mainly for their 'zero' dome jaws. Not had chance to try either chuck or jaws yet as lathe is still in RP's workshop awaiting parts! Here they are side by side.
View attachment 100412

Hi
Took your advice and borrowed my pals nova for a play, now i have the SC4.
They make them 10min down the road from me but had to get one from Dover, STILES AND BATES very helpful.
Thanks again
Rock

 

[Sachakins]

I have the sc4 and a Supernova2, I find the sc4 to be slightly better and jaw slides on it seem a tighter tolerance on their engineering.
But I think both chucks are great.
But since upgrading to a m33 spindle I can only use the sc4, as the Supernova2 does not fit.
I could buy an exert, but personally I don't like the overhang it produces, others find it no problem.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Hi
Took your advice and borrowed my pals nova for a play, now i have the SC4.
They make them 10min down the road from me but had to get one from Dover, STILES AND BATES very helpful.
Thanks again
Rock

Glad to have been of some assistance.

 

[Garno]

Cut a washer from a milk carton. I had one drop off and I bent a 9mm bar getting the chuck off - I ensure now I don't screw anything on without a washer. I have a Dettol bottle kept for the next one, it's a little thicker. You can cut them with dividers - just cut nearly through first as a larger piece of plastic makes it easier to hold, then sever the outer circle first so you've still the centre to work from for the inner one.

Phil this may sound a daft question but why not use an ordinary washer?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Because it needs to be flexible (soft) and thin. I would imagine the chuck would do up on a steel washer just as tightly as it would if the washer weren't there, and you need something of perfectly uniform thickness (assuming the mating surfaces are properly machined). No doubt someone with engineering knowledge will either explain better or give another reason.
Of course, if you cut the plastic one accurately you can jam it on (just) so it doesn't drop off.