Have I undersold myself here?

[TRITON]

you have MASSIVELY undersold yourself ...........................

Well maybe not massively.
To explain - handles look bad, more an add on and the hinges look out of place anywhere outwith a kitchen cupboard, buit also what in gods name are they attached to ?, those 'thickening parts also look to have been added as an after thought and while we all know its likely for screw depth to bring the hinge seat out in line with the edge,, that should be part of the design before you assembled it The timber while nice isnt book matched and the inclusion of knots while not critical, it would be considerably better had they been book matched. I'm not sure what the white patch is either
It doesnt actually look like you own a sander especially on the insides of those doors, you should not have lines and marks.

Sorry, im not being horribly critical, but crit is an important part of the design process. Everyone say WOW Fab, you dont really learn from that kind of an assessment, and in reality, at least while at uni or college, your work will be placed in the center of a room and 15 other makers will pound you with questions,some might like and some might not.

I think you should remove those handles and router in a simple shape into where they are sitting with an undercut to grip.
The doors are a nice touch, i particularly like that they arent the same width, that has more of a professional feel to it. I also like the steel frame, and that the finish on that needs to be able to last many years without flaking or peeling.

£1000 the pair.

More like 750- maybe 850.

 

[doctor Bob]

A lot of makers sit on their backsides wondering where the next commission is coming from, it's a balancing act.
I'd rather underprice at times and have a rolling 4-5 month order book than overprice and wonder where the next job is.
Of course ultimately a profit is essential.

 

[Spectric]

Now you have made them look back at your design and see where you could have saved time, what you might want to do differently or better and take these forward.

I noted you said it was a welded steel frame powdercoated black and with tabs welded to the steel frame. A possible suggestion here is to use an industrial tube system with knock in fittings and ability to attach the wood without welding, it would be a quicker method.

https://www.tradesystems.co.uk/Dexion-Speedfame-Compatible-25mm-Square-Tube-System.html
I have used a lot of these tube systems over the years as they do make for quick storage and shelving in the right enviroment, and also for test rigs and prototype systems. This is just one manufacturer from one supplier and there are many others out there but gives you the idea.

 

[julianf]

I go the other way -

I don't make money from friends at all.

That's not to say I do nothing for them, and, indeed, will somtimes put in a decent amount of time (I'm soon to plaster a friend's lounge in lime, which is considerably larger a job than mixing up some gypsum) but it's just simpler for me if I keep those who pay my wage entirely seperate from those I'm friends with.

That's also not to say I charge them normal rates either. I don't charge friends, and, if that means I don't work for them at all, well, that's fine also.

If it's a job that interests me, I'll just do it without charge.

 

[shed9]

Interesting thread and lots of useful advice. Not to state the obvious but pricing is crucial for many reasons especially as a one man business. If you price too low you will have to work quicker and are more likely to create more non-distinctive output as opposed to fewer but more bespoke product. Price will eventually dictate the type of work you create (and are known for) and the type of customer you appeal to and deal with (and are known to). The lower you go, the less flexibility you will have but then it depends on your circumstances.
Dipping your toe in selling product when you have no underlying need on the finances related to that is a double edged sword. You have the comfort of doing the job in your own time and can consider what sale price works for you within that context. Whilst this gives some safe experience in building up a small business, the reality is that small businesses don't have that comfort and that in itself is often why some businesses are successful - they absolutely have to be.
It's hard to assess work online as photographs hide a multitude of sins. I've seen pictures of workpieces that look stunning in the image but in the flesh are abhorrent horrors that should never have lived. As others have said, don't underprice but make sure that the work itself lines up with your price accordingly. I also subscribe to Doctor Bob's comment in doing something rather than nothing in keeping a healthy order book. Only thing I can add based on my own experience;

1. Agree a brief with the client (in writing / email) and be as detailed as possible including, weight, dimensions, materials, delivery time, installation, etc.
2. Agree a price with an understanding that any change to the brief requires a review of price (in writing / email).
3. Be realistic, tell your client what they need to know and not what they want to hear. If these two aspects don't meet up, walk away politely.
4. Manage expectations.
5. Take a deposit for materials.
6. Ensure the brief is still agreed (in writing / email) and start work advising the client of that (in writing / email).
7. Manage expectations.
8. Send updates where relevant and keep a record of that up until the delivery / collection date.
9. Post delivery / collection, follow up the sale and ensure the client is happy, accept compliments but also listen to any complaints and criticism.
10. If this is a viable business, remember, cash is king.
11. Goto 1.

The above sounds obvious and is clearly simplistic but it's shocking how many people jump to making something with nothing agreed in place. The level of communication sounds laborious but communication is key in ensuring everyone agrees and it will settle minor or major disagreements dependent on how major that is. Besides, it will create a rapport with the client and invest them into the build process placing more value in you, your work and importantly in the final piece itself. I would avoid mates-rates, by all means do work for friends but at actual business sustainable costs. Include them more in the build process in a more personal way than you would ordinarily but don't lower prices - it will lower the perceived value of the final piece. It's not a simple approach to mate-rates as it depends on what they do for you but that's relevant to your circumstances - on a whole, when it works out well then you work for less and your mate gets a good deal however when it doesn't work out you will likely lose the work and your mates.

To the OP, I'd be interested to know whether your friend thought the actual sale price was mates-rates or not given you stated in the original comments that they weren't expecting mates-rates?

 

[Buckeye]

The simplest way I have seen to price work is materials, workshop rate per hour and labour per hour. So fixed costs for the work making sure to cover going to get it or delivery, a workshop rate per hour to cover your yearly workshop costs (power, insurance etc) and then your hourly rate or quote based one time you expect if providing before hand. That is what I do anyhow. Some customer who I have worked with are happy for me to bill on an hourly basis without a quote up front.

 

[houtslager]

Well personally to make a pair of any matched side chests as these with or withoout steel , my qoute would be for 4 days work this includes sitting down designing the item, emailing client getting confirmation on design, materials and work time = £ 1,000.00 to 1,500.00.

hth Karl


whatr did you charge then ? put us outta misery plz

 

[Cabinetman]

Well personally to make a pair of any matched side chests as these with or withoout steel , my qoute would be for 4 days work this includes sitting down designing the item, emailing client getting confirmation on design, materials and work time = £ 1,000.00 to 1,500.00.

hth Karl


whatr did you charge then ? put us outta misery plz

Post number 35 on page 2. Ian

 

[Sean33]

Hi All,
I got asked to make these two side tables by some friends but they weren't looking for mates rates, they were happy to pay a fair price for them. This is the first woodwork job i've ever charged properly for so i'd like to see how close to the mark you lot think I am with my pricing.
I'll give the spec of the tables, and the fixed costs, then id be really interested to hear suggestions of labour time required and a final price before I say what I charged.







The units are bespoke versions of something the client saw on OakScrapWoodLand or whatever it's called, the items on the website were too large to fit in the recess either side of their chimney so these are around 85% of the width with a different cupboard layout. The MoreGlueThanOak.com tables were £320 each so £640 in total.

The units I made are 750x450x600 approx, welded steel frame powdercoated black with elm panels on all sides and a shelf inside, fixed with threaded inserts in the wood and tabs welded to the steel frame. The front panels are cut from a single slab to give a continuous grain pattern, the other panels are glued up boards due to my planer width.
I'd say the finish quality is fair to good, they wanted rustic/industrial but actually I think the finish is a little better than I expected.

Fixed costs for both (steel, fasteners, powdercoating, finish) was £250 in total, crucially the wood was free to me, a saving which I passed onto them.

How much labour time would you suggest for a job like this, and what price would you put on the finished article?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Labour time - are you including the time it took you to source legs, screws, hinges, handles etc, as take it from somebody that has and still does underestimate this it really adds up
Personally i would estimate 2-3 days, £30 per hour minimum. Range £850 - £1150

 

[Sean33]

Only advice i would give here is try to forget about there final words, try and work out how long it will take (including sketch's, sourcing materials etc) then give them your price. Always room to haggle after