Hand Plane setup, sharpening & how to plane properly - in person course

[Ttrees]

Keen to see a video that Jacob or whoever else agrees with him recommends.
As I've said that Cosman video might be the best on youtube.
Could be done twice as fast if not talking to an audience, but more importantly
not caring about being in the way of the camera, as that seriously affects things
, but the principal is the same for any users of the flat bench.

Wouldn't take 2 minutes to spot something silly on other videos I've seen, should it be a much different methodology than that above, and point out or prove why this or that won't work, very simple to see bull in that regards.

Can't master planing if the work is deflecting, the thinner the stock, the more of a concern this is.
The smoother should be able to plane any direction for that given timber, with no heed needed for grain direction, hence the name might suggest that it's suited to take a fine shaving.
Minimum deflection, or a flat surface is the key to deal with what others might call tricky grain, as that is only a consideration for rough jack work, and can be forgotten beyond that.
Can't utilize the cap iron if you're planing into a hollow, all you can do is advance the iron and pull back the cap until it aint working no more.

(and I've discounted Follansbee, as most don't cleave their own wettish stock)
That's the only time where one would would need dogs, packers, or birds mouths on the bench, unless its for something super specific.

Tom

 

[shed9]

https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Bench-Planes-DVD-by-Jim-Kingshott-author/9781565233508
This gentleman is sadly not with us but he taught the apprentices at the Royal Aircraft Establishment RAE, a fascinating man with an incredible knowledge gained through a lifetime in the trade.

I had this video in the 90’s and has to be one of the best things I’ve ever seen regarding woodworking planes.

I’m not sure how it’s aged now that we’re in the YouTube generation, a fascinating man nonetheless.

I would add our very own Mr Sefton also has excellent videos available in this area. I suspect he is a little too modest to push his extensive wares without prompt within this thread whereas I on the other hand am quite happy to be brazen about it.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-selecting-and-using-hand-planes-download/https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-chisel-and-plane-grinding-download/https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-chisel-and-plane-sharpening-download/

 

[Ttrees]

Pity the videos don't at least give a glimpse of some techniques used like Charlesworth's, so you have an idea of what you're getting.

I expected to at least see some shavings, influenced ones at that, and not just curlies.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I would add our very own Mr Sefton also has excellent videos available in this area. I suspect he is a little too modest to push his extensive wares without prompt within this thread whereas I on the other hand am quite happy to be brazen about it.

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-selecting-and-using-hand-planes-download/https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-chisel-and-plane-grinding-download/https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/peter-sefton-chisel-and-plane-sharpening-download/

Thanks @shed9 I made the videos with Artisan Media as not everybody has the time or resources to give up a week for a course.

Some are clips that didn't get used within the main videos and some are just extra bits.











I remember filming this, it was one of the hottest days of the year and we spent about ten hours under the lights with the windows closed as the RAF kept buzzing the area with helicopters AHHH

Cheers

Peter

 

[Jacob]

Keen to see a video that Jacob or whoever else agrees with him recommends.
As I've said that Cosman video might be the best on youtube.
Could be done twice as fast if not talking to an audience, but more importantly
not caring about being in the way of the camera, as that seriously affects things
, but the principal is the same for any users of the flat bench.

Wouldn't take 2 minutes to spot something silly on other videos I've seen, should it be a much different methodology than that above, and point out or prove why this or that won't work, very simple to see bull in that regards.

Can't master planing if the work is deflecting, the thinner the stock, the more of a concern this is.
The smoother should be able to plane any direction for that given timber, with no heed needed for grain direction, hence the name might suggest that it's suited to take a fine shaving.
Minimum deflection, or a flat surface is the key to deal with what others might call tricky grain, as that is only a consideration for rough jack work, and can be forgotten beyond that.
Can't utilize the cap iron if you're planing into a hollow, all you can do is advance the iron and pull back the cap until it aint working no more.

(and I've discounted Follansbee, as most don't cleave their own wettish stock)
That's the only time where one would would need dogs, packers, or birds mouths on the bench, unless its for something super specific.

Tom

Yes a flat bench is a good idea I'm not completely mad.
But the actual flattening is done by sighting along the face for straightness, or across with a straightedge for flatness - combi square ruler most typically, winding sticks for twist, not by reference to the bench surface. Then thicknessing by working to gauge lines.
Yes thin stuff needs supporting - I'd most likely do it on a piece of mdf, with thin laths pinned on for stops. The mdf up against the bench stop.
Not sure what you mean about planing into hollows - if you are flattening you only take off high points and don't plane into hollows at all. Though the shorter the plane the easier it would be, hence smoothers are short - they are for finishing, not flattening.
PS just watched Peters vids above. What I do is much the same except my bench is a bit rufty tufty with a deep well so I'd modify the ways of holding accordingly.
PPS winding sticks double for straightedge across a board.
One wheeze with a non stainless steel rule across the board is to rub it a bit and it leaves a mark on the high points and leaves hollows unmarked. If its shiny then pencil lead it. Plane off the marks.
I use pencils a lot - scribble over the whole surface of a piece and you can see where you've been, or scribble on the high sides as shown by winding sticks and plane the marks off.
I never use a long straightedge (except for constructional purposes) - it's easy to see if a board is straight or twisted without one. For joining two boards I'd offer them up to each and plane any fine adjustments to make them fit tight and co-planar.

 

[Ttrees]

Why not straighten/flatten the bench and use it, flipping or turning the work over, rather than getting the straight edge and checking?
Since one had a straight edge makes sense to use it for the bench.

Never made a planing stop, but see they could be handy, not having much sheet goods,
I just use some offcut butted against the stop/cleat, and raise the work using a flat board at hand.

Agreed the smoother is short, and as so, can only work to its full potential if it's used as such, (well on the species I work with, that is necessary)
Should be able to see the evidence if working on such a example.
Planing full length thin shavings as per the OP's trouble.

Wanting to be able to plane in any direction, and treat the material as it were riven stock soundboard grade timber without flaws, makes near anything but a stop in front of the material overkill for planing.

It's not asking for much.
Working knotty timber for example, and so on.

That's my take on it, coming from someone who clamps down the work for other tasks which many others wouldn't, I see the bench being flat much faster and less reliant on technique alone.

.
Nice for spotting things which may have changed, as that does cost an extra shaving or two sometimes,
what's unlikely a concern for those buying loads of timber, and can afford to have a large selection other material on hand.

It's a whole other tool in my view, and teaches one instantly should they use it as a trustworthy surface, rather than just a means of holding the work/jig for holding the work.
That's not knocking the beans idea, which principal I'm gonna fool about with, likely good for planing very thin stock.

 

[Jacob]

Why not straighten/flatten the bench and use it, flipping or turning the work over, rather than getting the straight edge and checking?

Easier to see with a straight edge across the face, easier to see by just looking along the length. Not least because you have to do it many times and don't want to keep heaving the workpiece around! Putting the workpiece face down also means you can't see any hollows.

Never made a planing stop, but see they could be handy,....

Mine is a length of inch and half square hardwood in a hole through the bench near left hand end. Can hammer it up or down. Can trim it by planing a bit off if it gets a bit tatty
PS "Planing full length thin shavings" is just for planing demos not normal woodwork. The Japanese make it a competitive thing. Anybody can do it with sharp plane and the right wood!

 

[Ttrees]

Easier to see with a straight edge across the face, easier to see by just looking along the length. Not least because you have to do it many times and don't want to keep heaving the workpiece around! Putting the workpiece face down also means you can't see any hollows. Mine is a length of inch and half square hardwood in a hole through the bench near left hand end. Can hammer it up or down. Can trim it by planing a bit off if it gets a bit tatty

Maybe if its a bit larger than what Cosman's video, I'd want to use a straight edge, but that's rare in my case, and still more faff to check for twist.

You can see the hollows when the material is face side down, unless someone's been having a laugh with a scrub plane and working in the center.
edit...
(in that case where you might have a hollow in the center, yet a surrounding high spot, the work held loosely will rest and rotate in the middle like a propeller,
all the tricks one would use with a straight edge)...
but the typical example, near every example in my case, is something with twist.

The flat bench trumps the straight edge in regards to maximum yield concerning the opposite face.



Haven't fully decided on what's the best planing stop for me yet, so just made do with a cleat, doesn't solve holding thinner stock like long veneer, like the beans tin idea could also possibly double up as.

 

[Farm Labourer]

Taken this evening. I'm pretty well self-taught when it comes to sharpening and tuning - this is a second hand QuangSheng 62 low angle jack plane that I recently acquired. It originally came from Workshop Heaven and I am led to believe that their QA is high. I cleaned it, lubed it, candle-waxed the sole and treated the blade to a sharpen on cheap Chinese diamond stones. I can see through the shaving on an inch thick oak board (part of a console table, I'm building), so am more than happy. A sharp blade has two surfaces (bevel and back) meeting - how well they meet, will dictate the accuracy of cut/rip... that's about as scientific as it gets, surely?

 

[Jacob]

This might just be one of the best videos on the subject of planing using a reference, there was an original of this video which might be flying about in the either, regardless if you go searching for that or not, the one linked will get you to a point of taking full length shavings, so beyond this video is some lessons which you might pick up from David Charlesworth's videos.
You will have precice methodoligy after this.

And then afterwards should you be getting tearout or planing long stock,
you could look at the other David (W) for more on setting up the tools themselves,
as any other guru's advice that's not the same is silly ostrich behavour, which is still very much so, abundant.

Just had a look at the vid. I do the same sort of thing quite often but my planer is only 12". I'd do one face by hand on long pieces which are difficult to pass over the top of the plane and keep straight. Longest was for some 14ft newel posts - sighted only I don't have a 14 ft reference surface!
I don't see the need for the "reference" surface as such, as it's much easier to squint down the length of the board to check for twists and bends, as Cosman does several times himself, without turning it over, as Cosman also does.
Not sure which face he's planing but I'd do the concave face as you have to remove far less material to make it ride straight through the thicknesser without rocking, usually from two opposing corners, or just the ends.
Then pass it though the thicknesser and start taking off from the centre of the convex side. When that side is flat enough to sit without rocking then pass it through concave side up and flatten the first side
No prob.
For very long pieces (my 14ft 4x4" newel posts) I worked out a cunning wheeze: Difficult to sight a 14ft long face but easy to sight a 14ft arris. I planed one arris dead straight (by looking at it, no 14ft straightedges around!) and used that as the reference for planing one face flat by hand, then squaring up another face. Then finish the back 2 faces through the thicknesser.

 

[Jacob]

.... more faff to check for twist.

2 winding sticks - also check hollows simultaneously.

 

[Ttrees]

Not sure which face he's planing but I'd do the concave face as you have to remove far less material to make it ride straight through the thicknesser without rocking, usually from two opposing corners, or just the ends.
Then pass it though the thicknesser and start taking off from the centre of the convex side. When that side is flat enough to sit without rocking then pass it through concave side up and flatten the first side

There's variance in broad statements like this Jacob, I'm approaching this from a hand tool perspective.
Most take out the hump in the middle so the material wouldn't deflect and be rocking about,
On thinner material this is crucial if fine through shavings is to be achieved, i.e smooth planing.

Never felt the need to use winding sticks for this, I'd have the work turned over and be planing by the time it would take to check.

 

[Jacob]

Not sure which face he's planing but I'd do the concave face as you have to remove far less material to make it ride straight through the thicknesser without rocking, usually from two opposing corners, or just the ends.
Then pass it though the thicknesser and start taking off from the centre of the convex side. When that side is flat enough to sit without rocking then pass it through concave side up and flatten the first side

There's variance in broad statements like this Jacob, I'm approaching this from a hand tool perspective.
Most take out the hump in the middle so the material wouldn't deflect and be rocking about,

Cosman is showing how to set up a big 15" piece for machining, not "a hand tool perspective".
I've done it often on narrower pieces to fit my machine and generally would expect to take the high points off the concave side i.e. ends and edges
My machine couldn't do that width and I'd have to do both sides by hand.
I'd start by cutting it to size for the project, then plane the best face, then the edges, then the back face to gauge lines.
I'd have it loose on the bench against a stop at the left hand end and against some sort of temporary fence at the long back edge, the stop clamped or nailed to the bench. If it was too rocky I'd slip a wedge or two under it. I'd hold it in the vice for the edges, with some sort of packing under fo a convenient height. I keep loads of offcuts and reclaimed stuff so that there is always something to use for supporting things and other purposes. Joist ends are good for blocks, little trimmings good for laths etc etc

On thinner material this is crucial if fine through shavings is to be achieved, i.e smooth planing.

Through shavings is just something for planing demos and not what you expect from normal planing, unless it happens easily

Never felt the need to use winding sticks for this, I'd have the work turned over and be planing by the time it would take to check.

Winding sticks take seconds to use! Absolutely basic essential bit of kit and used everywhere. You really are missing out if you don't use them. Make your own - just a couple of laths planed precisely to same height. Or three can be useful. You can buy them but that is just for the feeble minded!

 

[Ttrees]

Cosman is showing how to set up a big 15" piece for machining, not "a hand tool perspective".

The methodology is the same though, using the bench as a reference
Look again at the video @7:24
Noting the bump in the middle and flipping the work to remove it.
Keeping the concave side down makes it easier to work, but on thin stock
this may need be repeated once one gets close, due to deflection.

I have winding sticks of sorts, (bearers for rising the work) and used them for big awkward stuff, but never for smaller boards or anything, and just looking at the ends is enough for narrow stuff.
I can see why they could be handy should one be using a thicknesser, just getting enough so the work sits flat so it will get the job done.
As I said Charlesworth's video's takes care of the rest of the stuff,
which is still in keeping with the same methodology.


Through shavings should most definitely be expected if one is to be efficient when planing down to a gauge line, wanting to clean the surface with a swipe with a smoother either, but maybe I should go into this a bit more and say, one should never expect the plane to come out of a cut, (bar cleaning machined timber)
they should always be planing coplanar to the bench, be it short swipes from the middle, like a bump, diagonal to remove the high corners, or nipping off the ends, you know what you're doing when you can see where the work is in contact with the benchtop and plane only in those areas, and maybe a run through the centre for luck knowing where to stop.
So basically a shaving is always expected for as long as one wants it.
I can't see what's strange about this, normal to me.

 

[Jacob]

The methodology is the same though, using the bench as a reference

No it isn't. Cosman is quite specifically preparing a piece for the thicknesser.
He obviously wouldn't need to prepare the piece for hand planing - he's actually hand planing perfectly well with no difficulty

....I have winding sticks of sorts, (bearers for rising the work) and used them for big awkward stuff, but never for smaller boards or anything, and just looking at the ends is enough for narrow stuff.

You need to get into using winding sticks you are missing a trick and could be in for a surprise!

 

[Ttrees]

No it isn't. Cosman is quite specifically preparing a piece for the thicknesser.
He obviously wouldn't need to prepare the piece for hand planing - he's actually hand planing perfectly well with no difficultyYou need to get into using winding sticks you are missing a trick and could be in for a surprise!

The method of using the bench is evident, might not be evident to you, but ask yourself
why Rob wouldn't have flipped it over and planed the other, what you say easier side (less material needed to be removed)
regardless what way you look at it, the timber rests best concave side down, and sitting on the corners.

Keen to see a video of someone planing something no longer than the bench , whilst using winding sticks, where you think might be faster than using the bench .
I've watched plenty, and it takes longer than what I do.

Not saying winding sticks aren't a valid skill, longer stuff than the bench is and so on,
but for bench sized stuff looks like unnecessary work to me.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Just for fun here is a video of me dimensioning a small board for a box from a year or so ago.
@Jacob will be please to note the use of winding sticks. I made my winding over 20 years ago. Very simple planed sticks one in maple the other in cherry.

You will see in the first part that I clamp the stock to the bench. This is because I am using a scrub diagonally accross the board as i had a lot of material to remove. Near the end when I am giving a final smoothing pass I just use the bench stop which is my normal way of working..

 

[paulrbarnard]

The method of using the bench is evident, might not be evident to you, but ask yourself
why Rob wouldn't have flipped it over and planed the other, what you say easier side (less material needed to be removed)
regardless what way you look at it, the timber rests best concave side down, and sitting on the corners.

Interestingly I was taught to do it the otherway up. I.E. put the convex side down and use wedges. The reason I was given at the time was that on thiner stock the centre of the board can be flexed downwards as you plane resulting in a convex planed surface when the wood springs back.

 

[Jacob]

Just for fun here is a video of me dimensioning a small board for a box from a year or so ago.
@Jacob will be please to note the use of winding sticks. I made my winding over 20 years ago. Very simple planed sticks one in maple the other in cherry.

You will see in the first part that I clamp the stock to the bench. This is because I am using a scrub diagonally accross the board as i had a lot of material to remove. Near the end when I am giving a final smoothing pass I just use the bench stop which is my normal way of working..

Full marks for winding stick use! Matters even more on longer pieces and narrower pieces where twist is less visible
I couldn't use my ECE scrub in the way you are as it's too cambered and is only for rough stuff. I'd use a slightly cambered 5 instead.

 

[Ttrees]

I think planing across the board is wasting a lot of time here, it might make sense for huge stuff, but that's easier workable with the grain using a wider iron IMO.
If one were to plane from corner to corner areas diagonally instead (if twisted)
then the need for holding the work from behind or to the side wouldn't be necessary.
The same goes for shimming the work, another thing in the way of the reference.
I'd sooner just take the few cuts, have it sit stable and be flatter.

Deflection might be the very thing stopping a lot of folks from getting to grips with the cap iron.
That might not be so strange to some to get these results with a fine set jack, and for some they may think that's below the first rough set jack as good as it gets

Finer shavings needed now, as tearout is getting close to line using the beater plane.

Still a wee bit of tearout after some influenced shavings, many stop here.

and deal with that tearout other ways, but I'm switching to my smoother
Note the cap is close, so the shaving must be a fine one.

I doubt the plane will work sufficiently if the work isn't fully supported everywhere
with this light of a cut, that's why I think wedges and dogs for the likes of fine work
doesn't make sense.

Likewise to making jigs and fixtures might make sense for somethings like kumiko,
but for something with a bit of stability like a little box component,
is taking away from the non skillful method of just looking to see if the work is flat or not, knowing that the bench is reliable and it's all easy peasy.