Hancock's Half Hour

[AJB Temple]

Please can we all be civil.

Relying on teachers inevitably creates grade inflation. It is reasonable and logical. Here is why. Let us suppose a teacher has 20 students. 4 of them are capable of getting an A in a given stem subject. But from experience historically two students will perform at least as expected and two will be overcome by nerves, forgetfulness or whatever and get a B. But the teacher has no idea which two. Hence the teacher, in grade predictions must rate all four as grade A. This is entirely fair and reasonable for all four. But in a real exam two will still get a B.

In the current environment, all four will get an A. Two will be undeserving, but we don't know yet which two. Eventually both intellect and consistency will out. Either the university will discover it, or an employer will.

Where I went, the professors knew straight away pretty much, who was clever and who was sub par. The example works best at the right side of the bell curve where the top 5 or so universities pick their candidates for medicine, veterinary science, mathematics, law etc. The variance decreases at the apex of the bell curve.

Grade inflation of circa 8% (which I think is what is being suggested as being at least the level this year) will result in employers and universities being much more sceptical around the B/C area I suspect.

 

[Jake]

I sort of understood the venom on the brexit thread (leave remain), don't get it on here though, seems very odd and personal.

The common theme is about making people worse off (and dead counts I suppose).

 

[SammyQ]

I find this disheartening.

Bob, it is not - for one moment - that we were teaching answers parrot-fashion, or teaching to a preferred format, but rather that the differences between the higher grades were subtle; they depended on a candidate's ability to discriminate - in detail - between closely related facts in the knowledge body.
The Chief Examiner's Report highlighted those modes of thinking and enabled us to teach pupils how to differentiate as they were expected to do, and as the universities expected them to be able to in their courses.
We could not possibly teach them all possible versions of an answer, but we could enable the versatility of thinking to give them the capacity to synthesise novel answers in an exam, under time and presentation pressures.

HTH, Sam

 

[Rorschach]

Thanks AJB for that explanation.

Based on what I have heard on the news, it would appear that without the moderation the grades were far higher than they should be, the obvious conclusion being that teachers are at worst over inflating the grades or at best giving students the benefit of the doubt in tough times. Regardless that leads to grade inflation which is normal but at a high level is bad. It would seem the correction for it though has not worked well either for a lot of students.

I don't know what needs to be done to sort this but just using teachers grades doesn't seem to be the answer. If a student has inflated grades and the university doesn't discover it until they start their course you are going to have large numbers of students failing their degree having spent an awful lot of money and putting themselves into debt for no gain.

 

[lurker]

It’s a good job this did not happen when I was at school,because all of my teachers were constantly telling me that I would amount to nothing.

 

[SammyQ]

" Based on what I have heard on the news, it would appear that without the moderation the grades were far higher than they should be, the obvious conclusion being that teachers are at worst over inflating the grades or at best giving students the benefit of the doubt in tough times. "

Dear, dear, dear, 'horse to water' comes to mind. You just cannot accept and assimilate information? Hmmmm?

Moderation conferences, involving hundreds of teachers across the country, take place BEFORE grades are awarded. The 'moderation' you are referring to is slapping the title (wrongly) an ass-covering, blame-deflection exercise by a group of gratuitously-priveleged, inadequate, incompetents. It was done in an attempt to deflect attention from the lack-lustre and lacking-cerebrally Williamson.

Secondly, If what you are prosthelytising were remotely true, teachers' reputation would be in tatters and the courts would be jam-packed with cases of aggrieved parents claiming damages. My profession is one deeply, deeply, invested in child care and utterly committed to seeing our charges' progression in this world. To suggest - as you are doing - that we are 'snake oil' purveyors, is baseless, inflammatory garbage. Shame on you.

Sam

 

[Rorschach]

Ok you seem to have your own agenda here where you read what you want to read. You don't seem to want to have a proper discussion, you just want to attack someone you don't like, whatever they say. That's fine, but I won't be a part of it. Have a good day.

Going back to the topic on hand. Local news reported that in the entire Westcountry region (Bristol to Penzance) there are only 3 people currently hospitalised with C19 and there hasn't been a death in over 6 weeks. Very strange given the demographic of the region.

 

[RogerS]

" Based on what I have heard on the news, it would appear that without the moderation the grades were far higher than they should be, the obvious conclusion being that teachers are at worst over inflating the grades or at best giving students the benefit of the doubt in tough times. "

.... Shame on you.

Sam

It's par for the course, Sam. It's called trolling. Why not put him on Ignore ? It works a treat.

 

[SammyQ]

Just did Roger. Waste of time and energy.

Cheers, Sam.

 

[Rorschach]

Please feel free to put me on ignore, but if you do, please don't act like Roger and keep sniping at me, it's very sad, you might even call it trolling ironically.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

My profession is one deeply, deeply, invested in child care and utterly committed to seeing our charges' progression in this world. To suggest - as you are doing - that we are 'snake oil' purveyors, is baseless, inflammatory garbage. Shame on you.

Whilst I imagine not too many of us here can lay claim to being teachers per se, we have, all of us, extensive experience of teachers from being students, and then most of us later as parents. You may struggle to get everyone to agree that all, or even most teachers subscribe to your loft ideals.

https://feweek.co.uk/2020/08/20/top-results-at-a-level-almost-double-under-new-system/

The proportion of A*s awarded to A-level pupils has almost doubled – revised results released today show.
Exams regulator Ofqual has released data on GCSE and A-levels today after the government U-turned to award pupils their centre-assessed grade or the grade calculated for them by exam boards – whichever is higher.
The data shows the percentage of A* grades has risen from 7.7 per cent in 2019, to 14.3 per cent in 2020.
Under the calculated grade system, the results of which were released last week, the percentage of A* grades only rose to 8.9 per cent.
Today’s data shows there have been increases in all grades on last year, including grade C or above, which have risen from 75.5 per cent to 87.5 per cent – a rise of 12 percentage points.
Grades A and above have risen from 25.2 per cent in 2019 to 38.1 per cent in 2020; while the proportion of B or above grades has risen from 51.1 per cent to 65.4 per cent.
At AS-level, the number of C or above grades has risen from 56.9 per cent to 73 per cent. And the number of A-grades, the highest grade a student can receive in that qualification, has risen seven percentage points from 20.1 per cent to 27.1 per cent.

What I don't understand is the suggestion that teachers have not over-inflated these results. Is it just an unfortunate coincidence that the Coronavirus struck the very year that there was a near doubling of ability in UK students? Purely coincidental? Can you give me a reason for these results that isn't based on teachers providing higher scores than their students would earn from exams? It might not be that the teachers have done this on purpose: it might be incompetence rather than an a selfish desire to inflate their own performance. Is their another explanation? I am not a teacher, so I might have failed to consider a perfectly sensible, reasonable explanation as to why the one year teachers get to rate the performance of their student, the proportion who get A or A* has almost most doubled?

If I had taken my A Levels last year I would be particularly peeved. Anyone who took their exams 20 years ago or more already knows that current exam results are laughably higher than they used to be. Here's an article from 2008 confirming the inexorable increase in grades, but not performance: A-levels 'now two grades easier than 20 years ago'

Oh, and if the above are demonstrable facts (feel free to show me that they are wrong), does this still come under the heading of trolling? I disagree with you, therefore I am a troll? I particularly don't want to fight over this, but I also don't understand your position that teachers have not enhanced their students' results. Or is that not your position?[/Quote]

 

[Rorschach]

The GCSE results mirror the A-level results from last week, massive increase in attainment without moderation.

I don't think that the system they used for moderating A-levels was right, clearly some students were penalised from the anecdotal evidence presented on the radio phone in shows last week, students predicted to get A or A* getting dropped to C or less. However there is clearly some need for moderation.

 

[doctor Bob]

I predict a big problem in this coming year with students now being over confident about their ability. University drop outs and struggling with A levels which are very different to GCSE's.
Sam, are you seriously saying you believe their has been no inflation of grades, if you genuinely think there hasn't I urge you to speak to the statistics teacher, I think there has been a massive over inflation, however I do think it's the fairest way.
All the kids I know think Boris is a legend.

 

[Trevanion]

You know, when I got my GCSE results I don't think I ever really thought about them ever again after that day and I can't tell you exactly what I got off the top of my head but I know I got a B, a couple of Cs, a couple of Ds and a couple of Es, and a BTEC. I've never been asked for them beyond the college application.

Kinda wish I could have the last two years of my life in school given back to me to be honest, a total waste of my time which could've been better spent elsewhere without the bloody pressure and stress of "You must do well otherwise you'll fail at life" all the damn time.

 

[SammyQ]

I predict a big problem in this coming year with students now being over confident about their ability. University drop outs and struggling with A levels which are very different to GCSE's.
Sam, are you seriously saying you believe their has been no inflation of grades, if you genuinely think there hasn't I urge you to speak to the statistics teacher, I think there has been a massive over inflation, however I do think it's the fairest way.
All the kids I know think Boris is a legend.

I predict a big problem in this coming year with students now being over confident about their ability. University drop outs and struggling with A levels which are very different to GCSE's.
Sam, are you seriously saying you believe their has been no inflation of grades, if you genuinely think there hasn't I urge you to speak to the statistics teacher, I think there has been a massive over inflation, however I do think it's the fairest way.
All the kids I know think Boris is a legend.

Bob, I will be honest: if the same safeguards of a) centre moderation and b) external moderation, of coursework has taken place, with English boards, as they did with my board (CCEA), the chances for inflation were slim. You were SO scrutinised, you could not 'pull a fast one'; in fact, the year before I retired, CCEA applied a two grade penalty to ALL pupil coursework for my subject in two geographically separated schools, where lax grading had been going on.
The Examiners'Marking Conference worked to similar rigour, and published diagnostic marking guides every year. So, when we set exams as Mocks, we had a stringent guide for awarding marks.
There IS 'inflation'between Mocks and the real exams, in that everybody usually improves! The C and D candidates can go up by two grades, the A and B candidates by one grade. This is probably because Mocks happen with no pause in teaching, but the 'real things' are preceded by Study Leave of some weeks, thus giving a better run at the exams.
Something that has been overlooked in all this, is how schools are percieved by the universities. If St. Anastasia's Academy regularly 'blags' in predicted grades to get pupils UCAS offers, and the kids then fail to achieve, then St. Anastasia's very quickly loses credibility with application panels and acquires a dubious reputation! There is simply no mileage in falsifying or hyping grades and abilities, as it is a quickly seen-through ploy.
I concur with you in that I too believe that 'Covid Year Kids' are going to have a very strange tertiary education. Not necessarily that they "have been promoted beyond their capabilities", but rather that their enforced distance learning and denial of 'normal' student high density social activity will make them different from what graduated before.

Sam

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Normally at this time of year the news is full of 18 year olds upset because they did not get the grades they wanted and need to go through clearing.

This year they all get the grades they expected and all (in theory) could get to go to the university they were offered place at.

The original proposition from Ofqual was that grade would be moderated to produce a grade distribution similar to previous years.

So I think the U turn on grades has just shifted the problem downstream - top universities almost certainly made offers to students based on a broad assumption that a percentage will fail to get the grades. They may now have more students than they have the capacity to take.

Overall it is a shambles that could have been avoided - the pressures and outcomes were entirely predicatble 5 months ago!

 

[Rorschach]

You are right Terry it is a shambles but we mustn't put any blame on teachers, they are never at fault for anything remember.

 

[SammyQ]

" Overall it is a shambles that could have been avoided - the pressures and outcomes were entirely predicatble 5 months ago! "

Absolutely Terry.

Sam

 

[doctor Bob]

I wonder how the kids sitting A and GCSE's this coming year will fair.

 

[Rorschach]

I wonder how the kids sitting A and GCSE's this coming year will fair.

Poorly I would imagine. The kids who would have sat exams this year had basically finished their schooling before lockdown. Those sitting exams end school for study leave around Easter so they missed about a month of their schooling. Those sitting exams next year have missed 4-5 months of proper school and depending on their teachers and socioeconomic status will either have had excellent home learning or non existent learning. When they do back to school in a few weeks it is going to be some horror show of pointless social distancing and disruption.
It wouldn't surprise me if their grades have to be moderated upwards to account for the inflation from this year.