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Anonymous

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yup read my copy on the train home tonight as well as the spanking new Rutlands catalogue..I love a good catalogue.

ukworkshop forums gets a name check in the beginners woodwork section as well!

letter in there talks about how the website for GWW wasnt well used and how they would like to put plans up in pdf format on a website...

Charley? Why dont you offer the UKworkshop website to host the PDFs? Nice new content for you?

Just a thought :)
 

Alf

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biglouie":2ug88ci2 said:
ukworkshop forums gets a name check in the beginners woodwork section as well!
Yeah, I noticed that - Mike Riley, identify yourself! Newbies aren't supposed not to say anything "as befits their status". They're supposed to say lots and lots so we don't all get tired of hearing the same people post all the time*! :roll: :lol:

biglouie":2ug88ci2 said:
letter in there talks about how the website for GWW wasnt well used and how they would like to put plans up in pdf format on a website...
Ack, that's just daft. You can't expect limited content to get thousands of hits; I got the impression it was still a WIP when the plug was pulled. And it takes time to get a successful website going - I fear the bean counters were measuring it against their other, computer orientated, sites. Well it doesn't take much nous to realise that computer magazine readers are many times more likely to all hit a given website than woodworkers are, but it doesn't mean it isn't a used resource. :evil:

Cheers, Alf

*And yes, I resemble that remark :oops:
 
A

Anonymous

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..Alf, I agree. Speaking from experience (ie this is what I do for a living) websites cost a great deal to produce and keep up to date. The hosting etc isnt the main cost, the overhead of refreshing, publishing, designing, monitoring, branding and marketing is significant. Better to have no web presence than a poor one...

So I agree with you, no doubt a financial thing, and in my opinion, often your brand manager will pull the plug if you cant do the brand justice through the web property.

Is a chance for uk workshop to help get involved though? for the benefit of woodworkers! :)
 
A

Anonymous

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I got the impression it was still a WIP when the plug was pulled. And it takes time to get a successful website going - I fear the bean counters were measuring it against their other, computer orientated, sites.
Not entirely true, although the computer titles do have far better websites. Expected though, considering the market they serve.
Our problem is down to updating the site regularly.
It is down to individual magazines to do it, which in our case limits it to four people, myself, Nick or one of the two new people dealing with the art and sub-editing.
Whoever it falls upon needs to have some knowledge of doing a website, so needs some initial training of the software the company uses, plus, as you rightly point out, the vast amount of time needed.
Manpower means it isn't feasible at the moment, and if we do eventually end up with a proper website, it will still need to have input from one of the editorial team to ensure the stuff posted is accurate.
The lack of time available meant that we couldn't keep the site maintained, so it was directed to a link for subs by the company so that the domain name remains active.
It would be great to have an active website, but to put money and resources into it will affect the magazine budget, so the result could be the demise of the magazine because it sucks cash from the mag so it then suffers with poor features/projects etc.
I suppose UKW could be used as an example. Despite its undoubted success, with 1145 registered users, it isn't a huge site, so has very limited appeal, especially when out of those 1145, only about 10-20% are active posters. (Others may lurk, so actual hits are higher)
If we chose to throw a lot of resources into the website for what could generate a minute amount of hits, it could be suicide.
A forum on the GW site will generate interest, but again, monitoring needs to be tight. UKW are lucky that they have such dedicated people doing a great job, but with GW's Fantastic 4(!) doing the mag, again, little chance of any of use moderating it.
Sorry for the negatives, but if we can strike a formula that gets people back into woodwork so that our sales increase dramatically, we could do it.
If the schools actually went back to teaching a skill where some pride was instilled, whether its woodwork, metalwork, sewing, cooking etc like when I was there rather than cobbling together bits and pieces of plastic, metal and wood with disregard to the final appearance and calling it 'Reactive Materials' or something like that it might be a start. Certainly the demise of the apprenticeship scheme in favour of NVQ's was the wrong move for the country in general (not just woodworking) as far as i'm concerned.
Whether this has anything to do with mag sales is neither here nor there, but getting people to have a passion and pride was what school and apprenticeships did very well. Sadly, despite some fabulous stuff still being made by both amateurs and pros alike, the market is in a big decline... :cry:

Andy
 

wizer

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Well I'm sure GWW could get together a team of voluntary contributers and webmasters. I for one have 10yrs web experience and have plenty of time to donate for free. I'm sure there would be some sort of legal issues. But nothing that couldn't be ironed out. All it needs it for GWW to take some time and money setting it up and some liasing with the team of volunteers. I think it must be doable. Look at this website http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/ They are using the website in 2 ways. 1. to sell other products and 2. to sell the magazine. But also they are building a closer relationship with it's readers.
I realise you are all very busy, but we all know the power of the web. It is deffinately something GWW need to work out.
 
A

Anonymous

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Hi WiZeR,

Great offer, thanks very much!
I'll talk this through with Nick who will no doubt relay it to our publisher to see if it's something we could pursue in the near future.
It would be fantastic if it could happen. :D
No doubt if an outside influence is involved, the legalities will end up as a stumbling block though... :x
I'll keep you informed!
Andy
 

Alf

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Andy,

All the reasons why that you give (valid, every one) are a direct result of lack of money, and thus the bean counters. So actually we agree. What we probably disagree on is how to approach the "small reader base" problem which limits the funds available; but then it's not my job on the line! :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 
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Anonymous

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All the reasons why that you give (valid, every one) are a direct result of lack of money, and thus the bean counters. So actually we agree.
Sort of! :)
The company itself doesn't lack the money, but it has to keep its assets solvent to remain so. By freeing up money to get a website up and running would require increased revenue through either newstand sales, or from web space ads, but somehow I doubt that web ads would generate enough cashflow to pay for a web manager.
If the balance tips the wrong way, the 'bean counters' then have to decide if the magazine is still viable. Too many poor sales and the end result is the magazine going to the wall. Not just ours, it goes for probably every one you see in WHS or the local newsagents.
Even the addition of covermounts is a fine line. We have to justify the increased costs and hope they will attract enough sales to cover the cost...

Andy
 

Alf

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andy king":x2xzvn7v said:
All the reasons why that you give (valid, every one) are a direct result of lack of money, and thus the bean counters. So actually we agree.
Sort of! :)
The company itself doesn't lack the money
Okay, okay! I wasn't suggesting they were going to the wall. Lack of investment mebbe would be more accurate.

Coo, dunno how I got into this one really. :roll: I think my main thought was how daft is was to take down what was there. The timber suppliers list and the index were both useful and weren't going to need any maintenence to keep them useful for a long time. Presumably you're not expecting to get many requests for cutting lists so sending out individual files won't eat up the manpower? Which in turn will presumably convince all and sundry that therefore putting said lists online is not necessary. ](*,) Funny that, 'cos there wasn't much demand for, say, plans for a mitre jack - until I put one on my site... It's not entirely unknown for availability to create demand; waiting for the demand first is the safer option though, I suppose. Right up until someone else gets brave and leaves you in the dust...

Cheers, Alf
 

wizer

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surely the demise of the magazine trade is partly down to the web?... If yah Can't Beat Them...
 
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Alf":d4f092qe said:
It's not entirely unknown for availability to create demand; waiting for the demand first is the safer option though, I suppose. Right up until someone else gets brave and leaves you in the dust...

Cheers, Alf
Build it and they will come Alf! :)
 

AndyBoyd

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Andy
Weblogs provide a dead easy way to publish to the web and once they are set up require minimal html/web skills to post and update:

See mine:
http://croeso.typepad.com

or the new woodworking one from the US:
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/

Mine only costs me 50 USD per year and posting to is just filling in the web based form and clicking OK. much easier than posting here I assure you and this is easy enough!

Maybe worth thinking about
 
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