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RobinBHM

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To return to guns…..

there have been lengthy discussions regarding tight gun control and relaxed gun control.

how could America tighten its gun control, given there are around 400 million guns, that’s a big skip, right!
 

D_W

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Slavery was developed and imposed by powerful minorities with vested interests but opposed by the majority, especially the slaves, and was fought against and largely eradicated. Maybe you didn't know this?
Very idealistic. Maybe you can find the time in the history of the world where the agreeable minority ruled and smashed all unseemly interests. The whole idea of being universally friendly to each other is just a seed for tyranny.
 

D_W

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To return to guns…..

there have been lengthy discussions regarding tight gun control and relaxed gun control.

how could America tighten its gun control, given there are around 400 million guns, that’s a big skip, right!
I guess we could take the receivers out of them and start turning them into lamps to sell on etsy.

Instead of steampunk, we could call them...

.....I don't know. PiecePunk?
 

Jacob

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To return to guns…..

there have been lengthy discussions regarding tight gun control and relaxed gun control.

how could America tighten its gun control, given there are around 400 million guns, that’s a big skip, right!
There's talk of civil war Is the US really heading for a second civil war? which could be one way of shocking the Americans out of their madness - the current gun/homicide rate obviously doesn't alarm enough of them.
"..........most people tend to assume civil wars are started by the poor or oppressed. Not so. In America’s case, it is a backlash from a white majority destined to become a minority by around 2045, an eclipse symbolized by Barack Obama’s election in 2008........"
Or perhaps climate change crisis will help clear their minds as they won't be able to shoot their way out of it.
 
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TRITON

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To return to guns…..

there have been lengthy discussions regarding tight gun control and relaxed gun control.

how could America tighten its gun control, given there are around 400 million guns, that’s a big skip, right!
400 million registered, but i think the adjusted figure taking into account all the illegally held, as well as 'Grandpa's old guns' put the figure at more than twice that.

There's talk of civil war
Theres always talk of 'civil war' as well as invasion by a foreign nation, alien incursions etc etc.
Or perhaps climate change crisis will help clear their minds as they won't be able to shoot their way out of it.
No, I think they're tried that already :LOL:
I remember reading something about firing missiles into tornadoes in an attempt to break them up and dissipate the moving air.
 

artie

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400 million registered, but i think the adjusted figure taking into account all the illegally held, as well as 'Grandpa's old guns' put the figure at more than twice that.
Wikipedia says there are 120 firearms per 100 civilians.

So if we take the population at 326 million that come to 391.2 million firearms in civilian hands.

Would be less if they only count adults, anyway, it's only an estimate.
 

RobinBHM

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I guess we could take the receivers out of them and start turning them into lamps to sell on etsy.

Instead of steampunk, we could call them...

.....I don't know. PiecePunk?
I actually can’t see a way to remove guns when there are so many.

The argument will be only the law abiding will give them up and leaves baddies with guns and goodies with no protection.
 

D_W

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I actually can’t see a way to remove guns when there are so many.

The argument will be only the law abiding will give them up and leaves baddies with guns and goodies with no protection.
I don't have too much to conclude about that - though at least in some areas, I don't think the armed status of the law abiding folks has much effect on the bad guys. Maybe in really bad areas, and maybe in rural areas the idea that the population is armed prevents things like property crimes.

There's no real prevailing sentiment to disarm society in the states so I can't really think to consider much further in terms of what would work. Addressing individual issues without just assuming they're solved by removing guns is a worthy thing, though. Why do we have 24k gun suicides a year? I can't imagine that we can't trim that to 20k or 14k or 10k or whatever it may be.
 

Jacob

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Not for the first time Jacob you manage to effectively end what had been an interesting thread. I have no interest in reading any more of your drivel, life is too short.
And many thanks to all those who have participated in what has been one of the most interesting discussions in a long time. Have a happy, prosperous and safe New Year everyone.
:ROFLMAO:
You might try reading more drivel by Rutger Bregman Utopia for Realists - Wikipedia it could do you good!
"Utopia for Realists: The Case for a Universal Basic Income, Open Borders, and a 15-hour Workweek"
Haven't read it myself I've just ordered a copy.
 

GregW

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Exactly the opposite.
The world-dominating success of homo sapiens is based on cooperation and co-existence - deeply entrenched natural traits. We are pack animals.
The cynics, misanthropes, xenophobes, racists, mysogynists, psychopaths, power/wealth hungry, lethal weapon obsessives, otherwise antisocial and deranged, have a huge disproportionately disruptive effect compared to their numbers.
Read "Humankind a Hopeful History" Rutger Bregman.
💯
The worst punishment for human to be destroyed, is to force one into solitary confinement for extensive time, with no light, and sleep deprival by sudden noises.
 

GregW

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I have to say history doesn't support your view at all. Throughout the history of mankind strong groups have forcibly taken whatever they wanted from weaker groups. Look at the history of any of the ancient empires, the behaviour of the Spanish and Portuguese in South America, ourselves all over the world. The crusades, the list goes on and on. Every major civilisation has made extensive use of their fellow humans as slaves. And there have been wars going on somewhere virtually continuously for as far back as you like to go. Sadly we are unfortunately a nasty argumentative and selfish species.
“Never underestimate well organised stupid people, who believe their way of live is superior to all”
“Indoctrination is way of dominance, not a intellectual support”
 

GregW

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Slavery was developed and imposed by powerful minorities with vested interests but opposed by the majority, especially the slaves, and was fought against and largely eradicated. Maybe you didn't know this?
Nope. Society changed way how slavery operates.
Almost 99.6% of world population is slaves to banking cartel.
Over 140 countries are economically enslaved by economically rich country.
Most rich countries on Earth have most economically poor nations, due to banking or warfare system exploitation.

US vs Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan
UK+France+Holland+Belgium vs most of Africa continent
UK vs India
Catholic Church vs all other free humans alive not paying taxes from their faith of choice (including almost all Christians)

capitalism outsourced slavery to poor nations, first destroying nation by war, than famine, than indoctrination to consumptionism leading to central banking debt, “helping” a nation from poverty by collecting national debt in mineral resources.

we are living in world wide economically bound prison 🙄
 
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Jacob

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Nope. Society changed way how slavery operates.
Almost 99.6% of world population is slaves to banking cartel.
Over 140 countries are economically enslaved by economically rich country.
Most rich countries on Earth have most economically poor nations, due to banking or warfare system exploitation.

US vs Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan
UK+France+Holland+Belgium vs most of Africa continent
UK vs India
Catholic Church vs all other free humans alive not paying taxes from their faith of choice (including almost all Christians)

capitalism outsourced slavery to poor nations, first destroying nation by war, than famine, than indoctrination to consumptionism leading to central banking debt, “helping” a nation from poverty by collecting national debt in mineral resources.

we are living in world wide economically bound prison 🙄
That's it in a nutshell! And it's top down from relatively small hegemonies.
 

GregW

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That's it in a nutshell! And it's top down from relatively small hegemonies.
slavery comes from lack of power.

Before power was dictated by numbers of clubs, bigger muscle, technological weapon advances…
Now its influence to wage war without economic repercussions, to set up “new better” government to pay its debt for “liberation”….

For those lucky once in countries waging wars, knowledge is power, but to learn difference between banknotes and money, you must meet wealthy so can be explained.
No government will teach how whole population of Earth is robbed by eternal public debt to banking cartel.

does anyone does know how much debt you gave on hand holding one Dollar/Pound/Euro in banknote? It’s getting to 2-3k on MINUS….

Public hysteria about guns?
If people would know how economy works today, they would shoot all ruling class for treason.
 

Jacob

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"utopia for realists"

oxymoron
Well yes obviously! Supposed to be ironic - a "wry comment".
But the powers that be would have you stay pessimistic about any chance of socialist improvement, let alone utopia. It's up to you if you want to allow them to tell you what to think.
 

Terry - Somerset

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A clear definition of slavery is the "legal ownership of people who are forced to work and obey".

This does not include most organisations operating in the UK (eg: SD, Amazon). They may reasonably be described as exploitative in taking advantage of a dominant position, and may even knowingly or unknowingly support slavery in their overseas suppliers.

AFAIK employees can still leave SD or A for pastures new. This is exploitation, not slavery - possibly no more attractive but very different in character.

Most human progress has relied upon cooperation.. Primitive communities needed specialists working together for survival - bow makers, flint workers, skinning, butchery, tanning etc.

The bronze age, through the industrial revolution, to today needed cooperation on a wide geographic and social scale - access to raw materials (coal, iron ore, wood, copper, tin), wide range of skills (miners, ore processing, metal workers), infrastructure (transport, communications, power), etc.

The organisation of so diverse a set of inputs did not happen spontaneously. It needed people with vision, resolve, leadership skills, to make it happen.

Unsurprisingly these people may also have been attracted by the rewards of leadership - money, recognition and public acclaim. Many would exploit their workforce in pursuit of their goals - by modern standards some were fairly enlightened, but many not.

In many ways homo-sapiens are no different to other higher level animals - monkeys, wolves, big cats, deer, etc select pack leaders through competition, and dominate the group subservient to them. The leaders get the pick of food, and mates. Ultimately their dominance is challenged and another prevails - all very philosophical!
 

Jacob

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A clear definition of slavery is the "legal ownership of people who are forced to work and obey".

This does not include most organisations operating in the UK (eg: SD, Amazon). They may reasonably be described as exploitative in taking advantage of a dominant position, and may even knowingly or unknowingly support slavery in their overseas suppliers.

AFAIK employees can still leave SD or A for pastures new. This is exploitation, not slavery - possibly no more attractive but very different in character.
..........
There is no clear distinction - it's a matter of degree.
........The organisation of so diverse a set of inputs did not happen spontaneously. It needed people with vision, resolve, leadership skills, to make it happen.
And/or cooperative communal effort
Unsurprisingly these people may also have been attracted by the rewards of leadership - money, recognition and public acclaim. Many would exploit their workforce in pursuit of their goals - by modern standards some were fairly enlightened, but many not.
Even less surprising are the number of people who are attracted to the common good without necessarily getting personal recognition or other benefit, for their part in it.
 

D_W

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And/or cooperative communal effortEven less surprising are the number of people who are attracted to the common good without necessarily getting personal recognition or other benefit, for their part in it.
Comedy hour has begun.
 
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