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Jacob

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Just wondered if those who are concerned about our "virtue signalling" would be happier if we did moonies or something?
Open to suggestions. :unsure:
 

Fergie 307

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As I said - do a bit of reading.
If you want to know about the background of "People who look and think differently, whether because of race, religion or whatever are often viewed as being inferior." you could watch the series or read the book: Black and British: A Forgotten History
The aforementioned Beacon Press: The Many-Headed Hydra. is brilliant in how it links colonialism, slavery, land clearances, the cotton trade, the conditions of the working class, etc
Oh Jacob I do a great deal of reading, but I always try to seek out both sides of an argument rather than reading material that is heavily biased in favour of my existing point of view. This is the sort of thing that leads to universities refusing to hear from speakers who's views they disagree with, and the whole WOKE idea of living in what is effectively an echo chamber, where you are only prepared to.listen to people who hold the same views you do yourself and shout down or demonize everyone else. This is not a good way to ensure a balanced view of the world, and makes a mockery of the notion of freedom of speech.
Er yes. The opposition to slavery was immensely popular in Britain and widely supported across class and other divides.Absolute nonsense. You really don't know your history do you!
Abolitionism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
To fully understand how remarkable the rise of British abolitionism was, both as a political movement and as a popular sentiment, it is important to remember how few voices were raised against slavery in Britain until the last quarter of the eighteenth century.[7]
The above is a quite from the very Wikipedia article you directed me too. The facts are that slavery had been outlawed in the UK as far back as the 12th century. Didn't stop us continuing to exploit slaves elsewhere, again out of sight out of mind. It was largely Quakers and other religious groups who were the founders of the abolitionist movement, not the Labour movement.
 

Fergie 307

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Slavery was developed and imposed by powerful minorities with vested interests but opposed by the majority, especially the slaves, and was fought against and largely eradicated. Maybe you didn't know this?
Jacob it may have escaped your notice but every society throughout history has taken and used slaves, back to the dawn of recorded history. Who do you think captured most of the black African slaves, the answer is other black Africans. They were dab hands at it because they had been doing it for millennia before the white man showed up. Don't take my word for it watch the very interesting series of documentaries on the subject presented by Samuel L Jackson. There is an emotional interview with the current chief of the Ashanti tribe, who apologises for their role as the leading slave takers and traders at the height of the trade from Africa to the Americas. As to it having been eradicated, are you not aware of modern day slavery, it's actually a specific offence in our current law. Maybe you didn't know this?
 

Jacob

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Jacob it may have escaped your notice but every society throughout history has taken and used slaves, back to the dawn of recorded history. Who do you think captured most of the black African slaves, the answer is other black Africans. They were dab hands at it because they had been doing it for millennia before the white man showed up. Don't take my word for it watch the very interesting series of documentaries on the subject presented by Samuel L Jackson. There is an emotional interview with the current chief of the Ashanti tribe, who apologises for their role as the leading slave takers and traders at the height of the trade from Africa to the Americas. As to it having been eradicated, are you not aware of modern day slavery, it's actually a specific offence in our current law. Maybe you didn't know this?
What point are you trying to make exactly?
 

Fergie 307

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That it wasn't "developed and imposed by powerful minorities", for thousands of years it was integral part of every society.
 

Jacob

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That it wasn't "developed and imposed by powerful minorities", for thousands of years it was integral part of every society.
So people volunteered to be slaves?
 

Fergie 307

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Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. Of course people didn't volunteer They were taken. Often prisoners of war or equally tribes would carry out raids on their neighbours to acquire slaves. The only significant groups I can think of that didn't indulge in this practice, as far as I am aware, were the native americans, and the Australian Aboriginies. This may well be because neither lived in established cities, but maintained a hunter gatherer lifestyle. Slavery, strangely seems to be a practice that arises from a more settled lifestyle ! All the major civilisations practiced slavery, the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Aztecs, Maya and so on. The ancient Britons, Gauls and Germanic tribes also took slaves from their rivals. The practice was widespread across Africa, and is well documented in India, China and was carried on by the Vandals, Goths, Vikings, Mongols and Huns. So, as I say, it was an integral part of pretty much every society worldwide going back thousands of years.
 

doctor Bob

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seems to me, yet again, that some, really don't want a discussion but just want one upmanship. The topic is irrelevant to them, it's all about them. It's their game or hobby if you wish.
I try not to play their game anymore.
 
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Keith Cocker

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Regarding the history of the Labour movement, again there are some interesting points. Were those behind early worker protection measures such as The Cotton Mills Act in the early nineteenth century, equally vociferous in calling for protection for the slaves who picked the stuff in the first place..er, no. They were interested in improving conditions or their own people, but never uttered a peep regarding slavery. It was left to others to take up that cause.
It’s not really my period of history but I think there was quite an overlap between supporters of factory reform and abolition of slavery in the first quarter of the nineteenth century. Also the cotton manufacturers and cotton workers of Lancashire were strong supporters of the Union and abolition during the American Civil War.
 

Jacob

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Not really volunteering, like maybe you do with the local canal clean up, but more some big bloke with a sword gives you one of two options.
:ROFLMAO:
No unlike the clearance of the highlands - they didn't all decide they'd like to go to America for a pleasant change they had the roofs pulled off their cottages; hence the expression "turfed off" (turf roofs).
 

Jacob

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Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. Of course people didn't volunteer They were taken. Often prisoners of war or equally tribes would carry out raids on their neighbours to acquire slaves. The only significant groups I can think of that didn't indulge in this practice, as far as I am aware, were the native americans, and the Australian Aboriginies. This may well be because neither lived in established cities, but maintained a hunter gatherer lifestyle. Slavery, strangely seems to be a practice that arises from a more settled lifestyle ! All the major civilisations practiced slavery, the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Aztecs, Maya and so on. The ancient Britons, Gauls and Germanic tribes also took slaves from their rivals. The practice was widespread across Africa, and is well documented in India, China and was carried on by the Vandals, Goths, Vikings, Mongols and Huns. So, as I say, it was an integral part of pretty much every society worldwide going back thousands of years.
Getting closer!
Not quite accurate that the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Aztecs, Maya, Britons, Gauls, Germanic tribes, Indians, Chinese, Vandals, Goths, Vikings, Mongols and Huns all practiced slavery.
In fact it was only a small sector of each of these communities who forced their will on the majority, by virtue of having power through various means - principally by "owning" the land, however they came by this dubious right.
They might gather local support by force, or by cultivating antagonism and fear of "the others" and many other means. False "nationalism" is common.
It is a process still with us loud and strong - a large proportion of the UK population even today, seriously believe that we are under alien attack from evil forces cunningly crossing the channel by night in leaking rubber dinghies! :rolleyes:
 
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Jacob

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...... Quakers and other religious groups who were the founders of the abolitionist movement, not the Labour movement.
The "Labour" movement is used as a general term covering dissenters of all sorts, concerned with conditions of ordinary people, from a long way back. Quakers were part of it too, along with Methodists and others.
 

Spectric

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In reality many people today are still slaves, they work many hours trying to pay for a home and to live but are only treading water and have no way out. We believe we have freedom and use it as an excuse often to not do or participate in something but it is being slowly taken away behind our backs and once the majority realise it will be too late. Are we not losing our freedom of speech, more and more things are becoming no go, what happens once you have extracted all words that are deemed no longer acceptable but are what makes us individuals and gives people their character. We end up with a society of clones who will all be sterile when it comes to our language, comedians and such will be extinct and you could end up with the "thought police" as in Orwells 1984!
 
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Fergie 307

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Not for the first time Jacob you manage to effectively end what had been an interesting thread. I have no interest in reading any more of your drivel, life is too short.
And many thanks to all those who have participated in what has been one of the most interesting discussions in a long time. Have a happy, prosperous and safe New Year everyone.
 
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