guitar repair

[Jacob]

Finishing the chips and back to the guitar.
Looking at it has been giving me that deja-vu feeling, but I couldn't think why.
Got it now - it's got something very much in common with the hand made but cheap "production line" furniture so common before the machine age. That is that everything is done "properly"; dovetails and other details, as if by experts, the economy being in cheaper materials and speed - resulting in less careful cutting, finishing, glue splodges, particularly where out of sight.
The result being very good value at the price and a conclusion that these same people could produce the very highest quality, if they had to.
Also they are obeying the first (only?) essential rule of design - if you want to make something good then copy something good.

 

[Modernist]

I did enjoy the chips I only wonder why the art eludes so many over here.

Re the guitar braces. Why is it not a problem gluing (spelling corrected by Google but I'm not convinced (glueing)) cross grain. Why don't the tops and backs split asunder?

 

[thick_mike]

Got to say the quality of cheap guitars now vastly exceeds that of the budget guitars available when I started playing in the early 80's. I can buy a better guitar now, for the same price, than I could then. Given inflation that's incredible! Can't say the same for a pint of beer or a ticket to a football match (or a bag of chips!).

 

[Setch]

Good quality instruments are assembled under scrupulous controlled conditions, and are intended to be stored and used in similar conditions. If they were exposed to the same shifts in humidty which most furniture endures they would (and sometimes do) suffer splits and structural failures.

The tops of acoustic guitars are arched, so that any cross grain expansion of the top just increases the arch - the top of the arch goes up, rather than the sides pushing out. This helps the instruments ride out minor changes in humidty and temperature.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Whatever you do, Jacob, just don't take it on United...

 

[Jacob]

Whatever you do, Jacob, just don't take it on United...

Er - woss that then?

 

[Kalimna]

Setch - I had not considered the arching having a side benefit of humidity change stability. All the info I have read on the matter suggests that it is for structural rigidity, but what you mention makes sense too. Backs tend to be arched also.

Jacob - there was a YouTube thingy about United Airlines wrecking a (correct me if Im wrong) Taylor acoustic. United wouldnt admit fault (again, this is all from memory!) and Taylor got so much 'free' press that they gave the poster of the video a guitar in 'compensation'. That's the gist of it, but google it to confirm

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Eric The Viking]

Spot on. The poor chap who had his guitar wrecked spent months trying to get United to 'fess up. Eventually he said he'd write a song about it, to which United basically said 'Fine, do your worst!*' He now has a second career as a customer advocacy expert, his music business is doing really well, and United probably bitterly regret not training their baggage handlers better. Over 30m people have watched the video apparently, even though the hit count doesn't indicate that.

Enjoy - it's really well done!

*paraphrased, obviously.

 

[thick_mike]

Finishing the chips and back to the guitar.
Looking at it has been giving me that deja-vu feeling, but I couldn't think why.
Got it now - it's got something very much in common with the hand made but cheap "production line" furniture so common before the machine age. That is that everything is done "properly"; dovetails and other details, as if by experts, the economy being in cheaper materials and speed - resulting in less careful cutting, finishing, glue splodges, particularly where out of sight.
The result being very good value at the price and a conclusion that these same people could produce the very highest quality, if they had to.
Also they are obeying the first (only?) essential rule of design - if you want to make something good then copy something good.

Budget guitars are often built in the same factories as the more prestigious guitars. The difference being material specification and QC, both of which come from the brand. Another influence on how good the guitar "feels" is the retailer. Good retailers will adjust neck relief, action and nut and saddle heights prior to selling. This can really make a guitar feel great to play, even if it doesn't sound that good. These final tweaks being done in the country of retail means that small movements in the wood due to humidity differentials are accommodated.

Lots of these guitars are made in very humid countries and yet are very stable over here. To be honest, humidity doesn't really seem to be much of a problem in the UK. I don't think we get enough seasonal variation to cause guitars major structural issues. Americans seem to have much bigger problems going from very dry winters to humid summers. They're always banging on about humidification being essential to stop frets lifting and tuning problems, but as long as you don't keep your guitar in the garden pond or in the airing cupboard, you're pretty much OK over here.

 

[Kalimna]

Mike - unfortunately my experience suggests that humidity can be a problem over here. I made an acoustic out of macassar ebony B&S (at a course run by Mark Bailey at Bailey Guitars in Ayr), and whilst kept in humidity controlled conditions at the workshop, over a couple of years of being at home, developed a couple of splits along the grain in the back (can post piccies if anyone interested). We put this down to the wood perhaps not being too stable, and not quite at equilibrium when purchased. However, it then became an interesting exercise in repair, and evidence of exactly why you want a glue that gives under heat. The guitar now has a new back and sounds flippin amazing!
I have now bought a humidifier and meter which seems to read a constant 45-46% relative humidity in my house, which I think is spot on.
Cheers,
Adam

 

[thick_mike]

Mike - unfortunately my experience suggests that humidity can be a problem over here. I made an acoustic out of macassar ebony B&S (at a course run by Mark Bailey at Bailey Guitars in Ayr), and whilst kept in humidity controlled conditions at the workshop, over a couple of years of being at home, developed a couple of splits along the grain in the back (can post piccies if anyone interested). We put this down to the wood perhaps not being too stable, and not quite at equilibrium when purchased. However, it then became an interesting exercise in repair, and evidence of exactly why you want a glue that gives under heat. The guitar now has a new back and sounds flippin amazing!
I have now bought a humidifier and meter which seems to read a constant 45-46% relative humidity in my house, which I think is spot on.
Cheers,
Adam

Fair enough, admittedly, my acoustics are pretty basic. I've only got a couple with solid tops and sides. The cheaper guitars which get the most abuse are ply, which will be more stable any way I guess. Also, although my house is centrally heated, it's pretty old with no DPC, so I guess acts as its own humidifier!

Oh and...pics please!!

 

[bugbear]

Lots of these guitars are made in very humid countries and yet are very stable over here. To be honest, humidity doesn't really seem to be much of a problem in the UK. I don't think we get enough seasonal variation to cause guitars major structural issues. Americans seem to have much bigger problems going from very dry winters to humid summers. They're always banging on about humidification being essential to stop frets lifting and tuning problems, but as long as you don't keep your guitar in the garden pond or in the airing cupboard, you're pretty much OK over here.

Yes - if you read American furniture making history, the first immigrant cabinetmakers were forced to update the "traditional" English/European techniques they bought with them, due to the extreme seasonal swings in the USA.

BugBear